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What I think is that some people (especially Canadians) are keen on demonstrating that their climate is not as cold as most people think it is. So there is a bit of climactic denial going on here.
How are we demonstrating that our climate is warmer than most people think? We were discussing that Amherstberg is technically Cfa (according to Koppen's original classification). This doesn't mean we necessarily agree with it.
Growing degree days and summer isothermals are important when classifying climates too... You can't grow certain fruits in Victoria regardless how mild the winters are. Knoxville has a very long, hot growing season - the possibility of closing your pool in the winter is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
Daytime winter temperatures between freezing and 10C are generally typical of temperate climate, not subtropical unless you are consistently at the higher end of that scale and frequently go above 10C.
Cfa and Cwa are both in Group C: "temperate"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
As for Oakville vs. Saskatoon, they are on opposite ends of the continental spectrum - Saskatoon having the coldest winter variant and Oakville having one of the milder variants.
This is the point I was trying to make... It's no different than Philadelphia and Dallas having the same classification. Something like "Sub-Continental" would have probably been better to use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsereed
Most people have never heard of the Koppen Gospel , to them the term ''subtropical'' doesn't fit to any part of Ontario no matter what and proclaiming otherwise will only result in labeling said Koppen disciple as mentally challenged or prone to menopausal hot flashes.
Most people think New Zealand is tropical too
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here
Do they not have 1981 - 2010 averages in Canada yet?
Not yet. I emailed Environment Canada about this a few months back and they didn't give me a direct answer. It will probably take them a while to update it.
Last edited by Humid Subtropical; 12-26-2012 at 04:24 PM..
As for the normals, I personally prefer 1971-2000 over 1981-2010, since 1971-2000 is closer to the true long-term average. What I'd really like is an average of all data available, like 1890-2012, but oftentimes we can't pick and choose the data, so I take whatever data I can get.
Eh, it's not all that cold. Cold, yes, but not frigid. Those snow icons are for snow showers, by the way, according to the forecast. Just a persistent light snow. Quite typical for the Great Lakes region.
Curious, I checked Environment Canada website and looked at January data for
warmest places in southern Ontario.
Keep in mind data available is old 1971-2000 normals.
I think more areas of southern Ontario in the fututre will meet Koppens -3c
coldest month mean temp threshold.
Here are a few examples:
Burlington avg jan high -0.9c avg jan low -8.6c mean -4.8c
Chatham avg jan high -0.3c avg jan low -7.0c mean -3.7c
Niagara Falls avg jan high -0.4c avg jan low -7.9c mean -4.2c
Port Dhousie avg jan high -0.6c avg jan low -7.1c mean -3.9c
St. Catharines avg jan high -0.5c avg jan low -7.7c mean -4.1c
Hamilton** avg jan high -0.4c avg jan low -6.8c mean -3.6c **downtown weather station
Toronto** avg jan high -1.1c avg jan low -7.3c mean -4.2c **downtown weather station
Windsor avg jan high -0.9 avg jan low -8.1c mean -4.5c
Out of curiousity, I checked out Hamilton (airport, not downtown) from 2001-2011 (11 years)
Jan mean Environment Canada:
2011 -0.8
2010 -5.5
2009 -9.5
2008 -2.4
2007 -3.5
2006 +0.1
2005 -6.7
2004 -9.7
2003 -8.8
2002 -1.1
2001 -4.7
Jan mean (11 years): -4.78
Where can I find the downtown Hamilton data from 2001-2011 or 2012 ?
Last edited by Snowbird100; 12-29-2012 at 09:11 AM..
I used data from Environment Canada for downtown Toronto from 1971-2000 (30 years) and from 2003-2012 (10 years):
Downtown Toronto Jan mean (40 years from 1971-2012 excluding 2001-2002 no data): -4.005C
In summary, from 2003-2012 (10 years): Jan mean -3.42C
We are getting to the -3C threshold soon
Is it fair to begin to say "Downtown Toronto is shy of 0.42C to be technically subtropical" ?
Last edited by Snowbird100; 12-29-2012 at 10:34 AM..
Take the warm spells and the cold spells and divide them by 2 and you get the climatic averages, which is definitely continental, though it's not deep within the continental zone the way Winnipeg is.
I used data from Environment Canada for downtown Toronto from 1971-2000 (30 years) and from 2003-2012 (10 years):
Downtown Toronto Jan mean (40 years from 1971-2012 excluding 2001-2002 no data): -4.005C
In summary, from 2003-2012 (10 years): Jan mean -3.42C
We are getting to the -3C threshold soon
Is it fair to begin to say "Downtown Toronto is shy of 0.42C to be technically subtropical" ?
That's cool....or shud I say warm
I bet downtown Hamilton MUN LAB weather station data for same period would
be even warmer
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....or shud I say warm
