What's your guy's definition of subtropical? (precipitation, inches, sun, annual)
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Looks similar to this house in Leeds - Google has recently updated Streetview, they were there before, so they've clearly survived 1 chilly winter and 2 very cold winters. Surely they must be able to grow en masse in the Outer Banks.
I viewed Norfolk on streetview and really didn't see anything comparable to Venice. It only took me a minute to find that view in Venice. I could be wrong about Norfolk and the Outer Banks, but you won't see that in DC, yet they have the same Jan averages (just about).
I did find this pretty quickly in Wrightsville Beach, NC.
You might be right about NYC, but I took a look at a comparison between Nelson and Washington, DC.
Washington is warmer than Nelson for 7 months of the year. The summer avg temp diff between the two is a very large 15F, while the winter diff is a lot smaller and is 7.4F.
The year round mean for DC is 58.2 vs 54.7 for Nelson.
Nelson is only warmer in the three winter months, and one Spring month (March vs September).
DC is warmer the rest of the year, except for a tie in the 3rd Autumn month (50.1 Nelson vs 49.6F DC).
Even here in Philadelphia we average 6 months warmer, with one additional month very close (2nd Spring month 54.4F Nelson vs 54.0 Philadelphia).
So really, it is not just the summer that is warmer but extends beyond the summer, particularly for DC.
I'm not saying that DC is subtropical and Nelson isn't. Nelson can grow more subtropicals due to the lack of winter frigid cold. I just think it is inaccurate to say New Zealand is warmer except for summer.
If our winter std deviation was as low as Nelson, DC could grow a lot more vegetation. It is the deep swings in winter which would kill tender vegetation. Your avg low is in the mid 30'sF in that part of NZ, but the winter temps don't usually go below 23F. Around a diff of 13F.
In DC, the avg winter extreme winter minimum at Reagan National Airport is around 10F. In 2008 it went down to 8F. That is 21F below the mean Jan low of 29F. That one extreme night each winter would kill off the veg that can grow in Nelson and doesn't get killed off. Also, colder daytime temps or ice days due to the high std deviation would be more frequent. This prevents a lot of subtropicals.
We can just get much colder in the winter.
Venice, Italy has Jan avg's of 42/30.4F, just about the same as DC. Yet, you will not see a scene like this in DC. I doubt you would even see a scene like that in Norfolk, VA or the Outer Banks of NC.
All because of the wild swings in winter temps.
Washington DC is very close (1F in 1 month) to Trewartha's 8 months >10C/50F definition. Maybe he was on to something.
I said warmer over the year, rather than warmer except summer. What I mean is that while NYC is a lot warmer than here in summer, it doesn't follow that it is cold here in summer -it's still warm here for summer, just nowhere as warm as there. However winter is a lot milder here and quite a difference experience from a NYC winter. I would say on balance, more of the year is warm here than there.
I'm getting a bit sidetracked though. I never actually use the term Subtropical to describe here. I still think vegetation and fauna and the extent to which they thrive during winter, best define subtropical climates.
Looks like a nice place in Venice. I would have to say that it wouldn't be called a subtropical garden here -just a garden, it would be considered Mediterranean architecture though
Washington DC is very close (1F in 1 month) to Trewartha's 8 months >10C/50F definition. Maybe he was on to something.
I said warmer over the year, rather than warmer except summer. What I mean is that while NYC is a lot warmer than here in summer, it doesn't follow that it is cold here in summer -it's still warm here for summer, just nowhere as warm as there. However winter is a lot milder here and quite a difference experience from a NYC winter. I would say on balance, more of the year is warm here than there.
I'm getting a bit sidetracked though. I never actually use the term Subtropical to describe here. I still think vegetation and fauna and the extent to which they thrive during winter, best define subtropical climates.
Looks like a nice place in Venice. I would have to say that it wouldn't be called a subtropical garden here -just a garden, it would be considered Mediterranean architecture though
But looks certainly more subtropical than Washington, DC don't you think?
Looks similar to this house in Leeds - Google has recently updated Streetview, they were there before, so they've clearly survived 1 chilly winter and 2 very cold winters. Surely they must be able to grow en masse in the Outer Banks.
Those palms are Trachycarpus fortunei, very hardy & will grow just about anywhere in lowland UK, they even grow outside at the botanical gardens in Edinburgh...
Those palms are Trachycarpus fortunei, very hardy & will grow just about anywhere in lowland UK, they even grow outside at the botanical gardens in Edinburgh...
Yeah, I just looked into them and probably not a good choice for me to use. They are hardy to zone 7 here. Washington DC is plenty warm enough for those in the winter. The problem is that palm cannot take the summer heat here as it is a native of high altitude regions in China.
The greatest reported cold tolerance is −27.5 °C (−17.5 °F), survived by four specimens planted in Plovdiv, Bulgaria during a severe cold spell on 6 January 1993 and placing it hardy to USDA Zone 7;[5] more commonly lower tolerance limits of −15 °C to −20 °C (5 °F to −4 °F) are cited for mature plants.[6] Young plants are less hardy, and can be damaged by only −8 °C (17.6 °F).
But looks certainly more subtropical than Washington, DC don't you think?
Yeah it does, which is getting back to my original point. Subtropical climates should be able to support subtropical vegetation. Hotter does not equal subtropical to me.
Somewhere like Sydney is vastly more subtropical to me than DC, despite having cooler summers.
Trachycarpus probably would struggle with DC summer, but it can still handle warm summers in places such as Southern Europe.
Trachycarpus fortunei can actually grow in hot summer climates, they tend to grow with thinner trunks in these conditions though. They grow throughout the Med as well as in other places that get high summer temperatures such as Los Angeles & Melbourne... According to Wikipedia they do actually grow in DC:
Quote:
There are also a plethora of mature T. fortunei growing unprotected in downtown Washington D.C. and surrounding areas. Most notably 15' tall tree in front of the National Air and Space Museum, since 2001.
When I visited Southern California recently, I saw a whole row of trachycarpus fortunei planted along a median along US-101 in Santa Barbara. I must admit I thought they looked out of place there with towering washingtonia robusta and phoenix canariensis all around there.
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