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My definition of subtropical is very hot and humid summers with summer highs 30C/86F or above in the warmest month and mild winters, with average overnight lows above 3C/37F in the coldest month and with precipitation above 32 inches per year, evenly distributed throughout the year. If precip is higher in winter yet still within the temp range then it is Mediterranean, if precip is higher in summer and it meets the temp requirements then it is Monsoonal.
Yeah it does, which is getting back to my original point. Subtropical climates should be able to support subtropical vegetation. Hotter does not equal subtropical to me.
Somewhere like Sydney is vastly more subtropical to me than DC, despite having cooler summers.
Trachycarpus probably would struggle with DC summer, but it can still handle warm summers in places such as Southern Europe.
I think that -27C is considered debatable.
Sydney is definitely more subtropical than DC.
Those Trachys are very cold hardy. they can easily handle 0F /-18F
I've seen them growing in...
Vancouver, BC
Lugano, Switzerland
West coast of Scotland
Albuquerque, NM (Hilton Hotel has a few, also at the Rio Grande Zoo)
St. George, Utah
I've heard about the ones in Bulgaria that survived -27C, incredible
Budapest, Hungary aparently has a few too.
Even Bergen, Norway at 61N
Washington, DC can handle them, just barely though.
US East coast area is unfortunately prone to cold snaps,
Virginia Beach wraps palm trees in plastic every winter for protection, I think they're Sabal Palms?
Those Trachys are very cold hardy. they can easily handle 0F /-18F
I've seen them growing in...
Vancouver, BC
Lugano, Switzerland
West coast of Scotland
Albuquerque, NM (Hilton Hotel has a few, also at the Rio Grande Zoo)
St. George, Utah
I've heard about the ones in Bulgaria that survived -27C, incredible
Budapest, Hungary aparently has a few too.
Even Bergen, Norway at 61N
Washington, DC can handle them, just barely though.
US East coast area is unfortunately prone to cold snaps,
Virginia Beach wraps palm trees in plastic every winter for protection, I think they're Sabal Palms?
I don't know why they wrap them, plastic can't keep them warm so I doubt it's for cold protection. Sabal Palmetto's are fairly cold tolerant, I can't see them needing protection in Virginia Beach.
When I visited Southern California recently, I saw a whole row of trachycarpus fortunei planted along a median along US-101 in Santa Barbara. I must admit I thought they looked out of place there with towering washingtonia robusta and phoenix canariensis all around there.
I only ever let them grow in bush. The sun makes them look ratty otherwise. They are a different looking plant in shade and eventually emerge from the canopy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach
My definition of subtropical is very hot and humid summers with summer highs 30C/86F or above in the warmest month and mild winters, with average overnight lows above 3C/37F in the coldest month and with precipitation above 32 inches per year, evenly distributed throughout the year. If precip is higher in winter yet still within the temp range then it is Mediterranean, if precip is higher in summer and it meets the temp requirements then it is Monsoonal.
That would mean quite a few places in the actual Mediterranean would cease to be Mediterranean climates. Would they be dry summer Oceanic?
Yeah it does, which is getting back to my original point. Subtropical climates should be able to support subtropical vegetation. Hotter does not equal subtropical to me.
Somewhere like Sydney is vastly more subtropical to me than DC, despite having cooler summers.
Trachycarpus probably would struggle with DC summer, but it can still handle warm summers in places such as Southern Europe.
I think that -27C is considered debatable.
I think as you point out that warmth in winter should matter more than heat in summer. Climates well up in the north of the Midwest here have hot summers. Doesn't mean they are subtropical. I'm sure Venice does not get the deep artic cold that DC can get. Thus you would have more chance of subtropical veg surviving.
I don't think Venice supports citrus growing though. An avg low of 30F with a 40F high just seems to cold in winter.
Those Trachys are very cold hardy. they can easily handle 0F /-18F
I've seen them growing in...
Vancouver, BC
Lugano, Switzerland
West coast of Scotland
Albuquerque, NM (Hilton Hotel has a few, also at the Rio Grande Zoo)
St. George, Utah
I've heard about the ones in Bulgaria that survived -27C, incredible
Budapest, Hungary aparently has a few too.
Even Bergen, Norway at 61N
Washington, DC can handle them, just barely though.
US East coast area is unfortunately prone to cold snaps,
Virginia Beach wraps palm trees in plastic every winter for protection, I think they're Sabal Palms?
If you are correct that Fortunei can handle 0F, then DC can more than barely handle them. DC is in zone 7B/8A with an avg annual absolute min temp of 10.2F. If you look at data since 1990 and drop out the crazy cold of the 1980's, the min goes up to 13F.
I think as you point out that warmth in winter should matter more than heat in summer. Climates well up in the north of the Midwest here have hot summers. Doesn't mean they are subtropical. I'm sure Venice does not get the deep artic cold that DC can get. Thus you would have more chance of subtropical veg surviving.
I don't think Venice supports citrus growing though. An avg low of 30F with a 40F high just seems to cold in winter.
Yep -the look of any place is determined by it's winters. I think ignoring major vegetation differences is ignoring the effect of an actual climate
It's hard to see citrus surviving a Venice winter. Here is probably the coldest average climate anywhere in which citrus grow well. Even Christchurch is a lot more limited than here, with almost the same winter averages.
I only ever let them grow in bush. The sun makes them look ratty otherwise. They are a different looking plant in shade and eventually emerge from the canopy.
That would mean quite a few places in the actual Mediterranean would cease to be Mediterranean climates. Would they be dry summer Oceanic?
Perhaps I should have shown a Venn Diagram on this. I didn't say that was *all* that constituted a Mediterranean climate, just that if that particular range was met and precip levels were met, it was still not considered subtropical... Capeesh?
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