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A Toronto summer is considered tropical under Köppen's classification, as flawed as it is.
How so? That's a stretch of the definition don't you think? Are you basing this on because the Mean is at least 18C during all the summer months? I don't even know that it is. What is the Mean temp for June? Koppen classifies Tropical climates to have a Mean of at least 18C in all months, but the average highs in the summer are around 32C and average lows above 22C, so obviously, the Means would be much warmer in a true tropical summer.
Quote:
Tropical moist climates extend northward and southward from the equator to about 15 to 25
degrees of latitude. In these climates all months have average temperatures greater than 18
degrees Celsius. Annual precipitation is greater than 1500 mm. Three minor Köppen climate
types exist in the A group and their designation is based on seasonal distribution of rainfall. Af or
tropical wet is a tropical the climate where precipitation occurs all year long. Monthly
temperature variations in this climate are less than 3 degrees Celsius. Because of intense surface
heating and high humidity cumulus and cumulonimbus clouds form early in the afternoons almost
every day. Daily highs are about 32 degrees Celsius while night time temperatures average 22
degrees Celsius.
Typical media exaggeration. That summer was very cloudy which i'm sure added to the hype.
Maybe there was a summer, but it was the coolest average high temp on record ( 25.8C which is exactly normal for Pearson airport) since 1928 at Midway airport, and warm weather lovers hated it.
Nevertheless, tropical climates are defined by annual temperatures not a few summer months. July and August in Shanghai is hotter than many tropical climates.
Maybe there was a summer, but it was the coolest average high temp on record ( 25.8C which is exactly normal for Pearson airport) since 1928 at Midway airport, and warm weather lovers hated it.
It might be cold, but calling it summerless is a stretch, especiallly if you look at the mean not just highs (cloudiness reduces the highs but increases the lows). Here were the monthly means:
June 68.92
July 70.97
August 71.45
July and August look like they'd average Junes, or a hot September. Personally, I consider myself a warmth lover and I wouldn't mind the summer 2009, those temperatures are warm enough for me, I don't care that much about any warmer. But I'm less interested in extremes than many here.
Checking Neslon's monthly reports, Paris' high temps seem more volatile in summer. It often gets 2-3 days "Spanish plumes" that bring temperatures much above the rest of the month, helping getting over that 80°F threshold. Though 80°F is only 2-3°F above the LTA, so it isn't surprising that not reaching it in Jul-Aug is rare. Nelson's nightly lows look more volatile than Paris'. Maybe it gets more warm nights than Motueka.
No Spanish plumes here, that's for sure. There hasn't been two consecutive days of 30C/87F here since 1972.
Nelson is typically warmer at night and cooler during the day than Motueka. I'm not sure what climate I prefer of the two. Nelson gets great late afternoons/evenings (with a sun that sets over both sea and mountains), but also gets frequent cold, dry SE winds, than can give an unpleasant windchill at times.
Motueka is typically warmer and gets frequent mild Foehn conditions, that raise the temperature 2-3C warmer than Nelson, but with only light winds. It's downside is that it loses the sun earlier due to the hills (an hour where I am) and the temperature drops rather quickly, with more frequent and heavier frosts.
I just found out recently, that someone I know who was raised in Florida, lived in Toronto during the early 1970's for two years. Talking about the climate there, he said summers in Toronto felt warmer than he had anticipated - like a milder version of a Florida summer.
How so? That's a stretch of the definition don't you think? Are you basing this on because the Mean is at least 18C during all the summer months? I don't even know that it is. What is the Mean temp for June? Koppen classifies Tropical climates to have a Mean of at least 18C in all months.
Yes, the three months of summer have a mean above 18°c in Toronto. Windsor and Chicago have four months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge
Maybe there was a summer, but it was the coolest average high temp on record ( 25.8C which is exactly normal for Pearson airport) since 1928 at Midway airport, and warm weather lovers hated it.
90% of people here had no clue 2011, 2012, etc was hotter than normal. The same thing happens when we get a week of ice days, or a well below avrg winter. Locals are clueless for the most part unless the weatherman explains it to them. Maybe its different there.
Locals do, however, notice when we get a very cloudy summer, or a 'snow-less' winter. The March 2012 heat wave was recognized too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge
That was also the cloudiest summer on record with only 42,887 minute (715 hrs) of sunshine recorded at Midway airport.
Using C-S values? Toronto had 743.8 hours of sunshine that summer (June, July, August) using C-S.
It might be cold, but calling it summerless is a stretch, especiallly if you look at the mean not just highs (cloudiness reduces the highs but increases the lows). Here were the monthly means:
June 68.92
July 70.97
August 71.45
It wasn't exactly "summerless" but it was certainly not like a typical summer, and it was record setting in a number of cool categorie. Only 7 days at or above 90F/32C. A four day stretch in June and 3 days in August. Normal is around 23 days at Midway and 18 days at O'Hare
For Midway which has records since 1928, it was the seventh coolest summer measured by Mean temp, and for O'Hare which is currently the official station it was the second coolest average max behind 1992, and the fifth coolest Mean behind 1992 1982, 1985, and 2004, with records going back to 1959.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humid Subtropical
Yes, the three months of summer have a mean above 18°c in Toronto. Windsor and Chicago have four months.
I don't think we have tropical summers because we don't have nights that average 22C+
The station with the closest tropical nights in Chicago is Northerly Island which is right on the lakeshore. They are lake cooled during the day, but nights are balmy in July and August
That's quite a difference from west suburban stations who have much cooler nights but warmer days in the summer like Streamwood which is about 30 miles from the lakeshore
Quote:
Using C-S values? Toronto had 743.8 hours of sunshine that summer (June, July, August) using C-S.
Midway uses the Foster as well as the Kipp Zonen (WMO standard) though Coop reports and observations are with the Foster to keep historical consistency.
Btw
What is the highest average monthly max recorded in Toronto.
I believe Paris' record is from either 2003 or 2006. Anyone have more information?
Last edited by chicagogeorge; 10-24-2013 at 04:42 PM..
The station with the closest tropical nights in Chicago is Northerly Island which is right on the lakeshore. They are lake cooled during the day, but nights are balmy in July and August.
Lakeside locations generally record higher lows but the heavier winds sort of make it feel the same as inland. I wish we had more stations/30 year averages in Ontario, would be interesting to see the avrg lows along Lake Erie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge
That's quite a difference from west suburban stations who have much cooler nights but warmer days in the summer like Streamwood which is about 30 miles from the lakeshore.
I'm surprised Milwaukee isn't considered a 'suburb'. Those summer nights are surprisingly low, cooler than Ottawa even. Days are perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge
Midway uses the Foster as well as the Kipp Zonen (WMO standard) though Coop reports and observations are with the Foster to keep historical consistency.
A relatively cloudy summer if you convert to C-S. Probably added to the hype.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge
What is the highest average monthly max recorded in Toronto.
Not 100% sure, will have to do some research. Environment Canada's website is incredibly unorganized and time consuming.
Last edited by Humid Subtropical; 10-25-2013 at 01:57 PM..
Speaking of summers, I think Toronto's are perfect. When we get a few days above 32C, it feels too hot, especially under direct sun. I don't know why people are arguing as if warmer summer is necessarily better. Summers will the highs around 25-28C is just perfectly comfortably, which is exactly what Toronto has. Do we really like 35C summers?
Toronto is winter is pretty bad. It is especially bad in March/April - the cold days seem to just linger forever (2013 for example). This is what I hate most about our winter, not the cold Jan/Feb days.
But it will all change. With global warming, Toronto's winter is expect to be 5.7C warmer within the next 10 years, and summer 3.8C higher.
Currently downtown (the Annex) has an average high of -0.7C and low of -6.7C in Jan. If the warming materializes, it will be +5C and -1C, which is warmer than Manhattan today (-2.8C/+3.9C).
I believe Paris' record is from either 2003 or 2006. Anyone have more information?
30.5°C in July 2006 (30.3°C in August 2003).
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli
But it will all change. With global warming, Toronto's winter is expect to be 5.7C warmer within the next 10 years, and summer 3.8C higher.
Article says "in the coming decades", not "in the coming decade".
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Those summer nights are surprisingly low, cooler than Ottawa even. Days are perfect. 
