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I wouldn't really know the first thing about subtropical plants or any kinds of palm trees. I was wondering if you knew what types of trees there are in this photo. They all look different but I couldn't say what they are. Prolly a non-subtropical one of some kind.
Not sure what variety this is, but I see it frequently in residential neighborhoods in Dover, UK.
You're right.
And that Alabama town is only about 25 miles north of the Florida state line at 31N
I notice in the photo they're all huddled around a propane heater
I agree, most of the US south, Texas to the Carolinas, areas inland from the coast don't look very subtropical at all. The native vegetation is mostly deciduous or pines.
Places at similar latitude in other parts of the world look much more subtropical.
Many more broadleaf evergreen trees, even places like northern Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Syria.
One reason might be that US south is prone to relatively severe cold shots,
record cold temps for example, Atlanta at 34N is colder than London at 51N
exactly Holdridge life zone system doesn't consider anywhere in the Continental USA subtropical save for central Florida, deep south Texas, S Cali, and the warmer zones of Arizona. the rest of the USA is temperate except for S FL which is tropical.
Great discussion! Well I grew up in the South, and even though Midland City is pretty far south, being as far inland as they are, I'm sure they are subject to a cold snap or two during the winter, though their averages are generally pretty mild in the winter.
I remember visiting Albany, Georgia once (about 90 miles east and slightly north of Midland City) and was surprised to see palm trees there. I didn't know Dothan had palm trees either, but after seeing them in Albany, I'm not surprised. Alabama in general (even the central and northern parts of the state) have winters that are hard to explain. Even Huntsville in the far northern part of the state and at nearly 1,000 feet above sea level, has a daytime high of 50 F (10 C) in January, the coldest month. That's cold compared to Miami, but mild compared to even New York City, which itself is not as brutally cold in the winter as Chicago.
And yet, Huntsville (and points much further south, like Midland City) are subject to cold snaps that can bring the temperature down well below freezing. In Huntsville and in the Tennessee Valley in general temperatures below 20 F (-7 C) are not an everyday occurrence, but they are not unheard of either and can reasonably be expected to occur at least once in any given winter season. And yet, Huntsville basically looks like Midland City in the winter - the grass is dormant (and brown) and the air is often chilly, if not downright cold. But I would suspect that Midland City has a lot more vegetation that does not shed its leaves in the winter compared to the northern part of the state. Nonetheless, I guess it's just barely cold enough for the grass to turn brown in the winter, albeit for a short time (I'm wouldn't be surprised to see grass and flowers back in bloom in late February down there, or fall colors in early December for that matter).
So yeah, Alabama and other neighboring southern states (Georgia, Mississippi, etc) have winters that are kind of hard to explain. It's like a weird sort of quasi-winter - in January, there are things that make it feel like a real winter (the brown grass, for instance), and other things that make it feel like it's not winter (temperatures in the 60s, for instance).
I realize Charleston, Savannah, Mobile, New Orleans, etc look subtropical in winter, however my OP was more about places well inland like Dothan, AL or Columbia, SC.
CIDP's grow well in Charleston from everything I've heard.
Here is a CIDP in Charleston, SC:
I've lived in the midlands and upstate South Carolina and from what I've generally observed, the area I live in (Irmo, SC, just northwest ~15 miles from Columbia) gets that overall sort of "dead" look to the grass and trees. It doesn't really hit that point until you're well into November and December of course, that's when the temperatures really start to get cool-cold and stay that way till early March.
Generally, yes, CIDP's do grow well in the Charleston area. I've heard that there are a pair of Canary Island Date palms in Columbia that are well established and have survived the winters here. There's a poster on the Columbia forums that has his own and he said it has grown relatively well with no problems. I'm experimenting myself with one, planted this past summer, about 4-5 tall. It's first test lies in the next couple of days as its suppose to hit 31 and 25 degrees on consecutive nights. A bit cold for this time of year, but nighttime temps should return to the 40's and low 50's after this short cold snap.
II'm experimenting myself with one, planted this past summer, about 4-5 tall. It's first test lies in the next couple of days as its suppose to hit 31 and 25 degrees on consecutive nights. A bit cold for this time of year, but nighttime temps should return to the 40's and low 50's after this short cold snap.
25 and 31F are nothing for a CIDP. How much has it grown since you planted it? I'm curious about how quickly they grow in warm humid summer climates like South Carolina.
That's good to hear. To be honest, it hasn't grown all that much. I planted it in July. I have some pictures that I took of it in early August. I'll try to take some pics of it tomorrow when I get a chance and post them on here to compare. I think if anything, the fronds have certainly grown out a little bit. In terms of overall height and thickness at the base it's really negligible to my eye... Unless of course if you can tell a difference. Will post some pictures in the next few days...
I'm curious to see how they do here also. I know they like a dry climate with plenty of sun, yet they grow fine in Florida where it almost constantly rains. We'll see how it deals with the winters up here, its very borderline.
Recently on the news there has been quite a lot of coverage in the small town of Midland City, AL (5 year old hostage). I couldn't help but notice how the area looked almost the same as my area around here. The grass looks brown/ green, and a lot of dead trees. This part of Alabama is around 80 miles inland from the coast.
I looked at the weather stats for the area and found this:
November avg high/low = 69/43F with lowest temp of 28F and two nights 32f or below for entire month
December " " = 65/44F with lowest temp of 28F and three nights 32f or below for month
January " " = 68/47F with lowest temp of 32F and two nights 32F or below for entire month
February " " = 62/36F with lowest temp of 32F on one night so far
My area has had a low of 12F, and has been much colder every month than this part of Alabama.
Anyone know why the area looks so much less subtropical than other subtropical locations around the world. New Zeland where Joe90 lives gets colder than 28F, yet his area looks much more evergreen.
Here is a pic of the area from two days ago:
It's the same with inland China. Also, poor soil quality.
Even though winters in the south are very mild, there are always a couple of extremely cold days. The temperature variation is the problem.
I think it has more to do with cycles of dormancy and growth, which depend a lot on rainfall and soil moisture -- perhaps more than temperature.
Most of the eastern U.S. has humid, hot summers that encourage growth. Winters are usually relatively dry, with occasional shots of very dry, cold air sinking down from the arctic. So the native vegetation has become very well adapted to winter dormancy and summer growth.
It's very different from the west coast, for example, where summer drought induces dormancy and winters are green.
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