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Crepe myrtle no longer get discussed on here in relation to subtropical climates. I'm guessing because they quite a hardy plant that comes from zone 7 in east Asia.. They're in full bloom here at present -quite impressive.
Crepe myrtles are all over the place here and way overplanted. I will agree that they are gorgeous in full bloom and continue to bloom throughout the summer. If I could change one thing, I'd love for them to be evergreen rather than deciduous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asagi
Yes, broadleaf evergreens from subtropical eastern Asia are pretty hardy.
Camellia japonica for example is native to zone 9 and 10 in Asia yet can be grown in zone 8 and 7 (some varieties are even possible in zone 6, including those of Korean provenances). Same with other very common shrubs like Cleyera japonica, Photinia glabra, Pittosporum tobira, evergreen Viburnum, etc.
Evergreen trees like Loquat and Japanese Blueberry are also staples in zone 9 and the warmer parts of zone 8. Don't know what is grown in the colder parts of the South.
This also applies to palms and conifers. Sago palm (Cycas revoluta) and Chinese Fan Palm (Livistona chinensis) are both native to zone 10 in E. Asia but are staples in zone 9 in the southeast (and other subtropical areas).
For comparison, evergreens native to zone 8 and 9 in the southeast tend to be only hardy to zone 7. Examples: Prunus caroliniana, Myrica cerifera, Quercus virginiana, Ilex vomitoria, Magnolia grandiflora.
On the other hand, many (all?) of the tropical evergeens from zone 10 in Florida are not hardy at all. Even some of the species found in deep southern Texas like Texas Olive (Cordia boissieri) and Texas Ebony (Ebenopsis ebano) are pretty much zone 9 plants.
Very interesting. Despite the southeastern U.S. and southeastern China having very similar climates, they're still two different continents that grew and developed it's own palate of flora. It just so happens that SE Asia is more evergreen, but conveniently, southeast Asia's subtropical plants are hardy here. My personal favorite out of the bunch you named is the loquat.
This is true especially in the piedmont regions of 7B borderline 8A areas. In the southeast once you get into 8A territory or the 15%-20% percentile of broadleaf evergreens, you get into pine territory. Which after a quick search, is NOT part of the broadleaf evergreen group. Pines are grouped separately. So the bonap map that I posted earlier does not show the evergreen pines. So to further my argument on the southeast being greener than the northeast, here are some more cool maps.
Something tells me that whatever vegetation is present in coastal Texas, coastal LA, and South Florida is not of a true climax state.
Last edited by MadMatrix; 03-17-2016 at 12:59 AM..
Interesting. Where is this website that talks about winter pollinating plants?
Density Gradients 2015
lol it was literally 2 posts above you.118 maps on this site so I will put it for you so you don't have to do all that scrolling.
The vegetation of the Southeastern US just is not well studied at all; too many books call it temperate deciduous forest, yet, in reality, much of that area is covered in pine forest, and, along the coast, you have evergreen forest, complete with live oak, magnolias, red bays, etc all draped with spanish moss.
No wonder why all the maps of the region are whack; they are based on the low amount of information that is present on the region.
There is a very sad story about Red Bay I read just yesterday. We really have to get a handle on invasive pests. We lost Elm trees, Chestnut trees, Ash trees, and now Red Bay are being wiped out.
This is true especially in the piedmont regions of 7B borderline 8A areas. In the southeast once you get into 8A territory or the 15%-20% percentile of broadleaf evergreens, you get into pine territory. Which after a quick search, is NOT part of the broadleaf evergreen group. Pines are grouped separately. So the bonap map that I posted earlier does not show the evergreen pines. So to further my argument on the southeast being greener than the northeast, here are some more cool maps:
^
As you can see in the map above, pines are ever present in the coastal areas of the Carolinas up through the sandhills/midlands, in the lower piedmont area. Also, MadMatrix made the point that Lousiana's broadleaf evergreen percentage is low (yet still higher in percentage than the northeast). That percentage, like the percentages in the Carolinas, is not represented by the pine population. And look at how dense green the color is in northwestern Louisiana and south. If you notice, where pines start predominantly showing up in the southeast is almost precisely where the convergence of the 7B to 8A zones are.
Here's another map:
^
Here we are again with a map showing southeastern pine areas. If you take out parts of mid-northern Georgia, and extreme northern Mississippi and Alabama, the southeastern pine areas would almost exactly dictate the 7B/8A line. Something happens here that doesn't happen in the northeast. It gets GREENER!
Referring back to what a previous poster said, pines also can be designated as subtropical. And in my opinion, its a bit more than coincidental that they start to appear in abundance in warmer areas of the eastern side of North America.
That map is not really that accurate though as the coast of southern NJ and DE is heavily pine forest. Loads of loblollies in coastal DE.
Crepe myrtles are all over the place here and way overplanted. I will agree that they are gorgeous in full bloom and continue to bloom throughout the summer. If I could change one thing, I'd love for them to be evergreen rather than deciduous.
Very interesting. Despite the southeastern U.S. and southeastern China having very similar climates, they're still two different continents that grew and developed it's own palate of flora. It just so happens that SE Asia is more evergreen, but conveniently, southeast Asia's subtropical plants are hardy here. My personal favorite out of the bunch you named is the loquat.
At least we can agree on one thing, our dislike for deciduous trees. I wish every hardwood tree were evergreen. I have never been impressed by Fall color. Big deal, last for a couple weeks then nothing for months. I just never have liked deciduous trees due to winter. I realize they are beautiful in summer, and I appreciate them for that. But jeez I wish North American forests were totally evergreen. Kind of like Australia and NZ.
Density Gradients 2015
lol it was literally 2 posts above you.118 maps on this site so I will put it for you so you don't have to do all that scrolling.
I wonder what are the 50 to 100 present here? I don't really see that much blooming here in winter except for middle to end of Feb, and it isn't very much. I mean they are talking about natives and not things like camellias right?
That map is not really that accurate though as the coast of southern NJ and DE is heavily pine forest. Loads of loblollies in coastal DE.
It is heavily pine forested, but not subtropical pines. The pitch pine, from what I know, is native to southern NJ and Delaware. This pine fails to grow in the southeastern pine zone because it probably wouldn't take the prolonged summer heat. I've seen it designated up to 7B (oddly enough!) Right at this convergence zone that I harp on. The shortleaf pine is the only common pine found in the southeastern pine zone and in NJ and DE. Even then, from a map I just looked at, it fails to grow near the coast of the Carolinas and it's distribution stops well into inland Georgia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
At least we can agree on one thing, our dislike for deciduous trees. I wish every hardwood tree were evergreen. I have never been impressed by Fall color. Big deal, last for a couple weeks then nothing for months. I just never have liked deciduous trees due to winter. I realize they are beautiful in summer, and I appreciate them for that. But jeez I wish North American forests were totally evergreen. Kind of like Australia and NZ.
Totally agree with you on deciduous trees. I've never been a fan of fall color. It more or less is a signal that the growing season is coming to an end, which is depressing. I've actually cleared my backyard of all the deciduous trees except for 2. I still haven't decided on what to do with them yet. One of them is a blackjack oak, one of the ugliest trees I've ever seen. It still has yet to sprout new leaves, even after 2 weeks or so of 70 and 80 degree weather.
It is heavily pine forested, but not subtropical pines. The pitch pine, from what I know, is native to southern NJ and Delaware. This pine fails to grow in the southeastern pine zone because it probably wouldn't take the prolonged summer heat. I've seen it designated up to 7B (oddly enough!) Right at this convergence zone that I harp on. The shortleaf pine is the only common pine found in the southeastern pine zone and in NJ and DE. Even then, from a map I just looked at, it fails to grow near the coast of the Carolinas and it's distribution stops well into inland Georgia.
Totally agree with you on deciduous trees. I've never been a fan of fall color. It more or less is a signal that the growing season is coming to an end, which is depressing. I've actually cleared my backyard of all the deciduous trees except for 2. I still haven't decided on what to do with them yet. One of them is a blackjack oak, one of the ugliest trees I've ever seen. It still has yet to sprout new leaves, even after 2 weeks or so of 70 and 80 degree weather.
Good for you. I wouldn't have any deciduous trees on my property lol.
Blackjack Oak is native to the southern forests isn't it?
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