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It seems to me that some climates are called Cfb, simply because they have cooler summers due to altitude. Does this seem wrong to other posters?
Cfb climates should be (relatively) cooler in summer and warmer in winter, due to proximity to the sea (maritime effect), but there are places that are considered Cfb, simply for having a cooler summer (due to altitude). The fact that they have a colder winter doesn't seem to matter.
Some places are considered Cfb, for having roughly even rainfall in all months, even though the summer rain is probably convectional as opposed to frontal. This goes against the definition of Cfb rainfall.
As an example I'll use Pavullo in Italy, which is considered Cfb. If this is a truly Cfb climate, then nearby coastal/lower elevation versions of this climate would be of little use when understanding this climate, but somewhere like Glasgow (just as an example), would provide better understanding about Pavullo's climate, and I don't think that is the case.
It seems to me, that Koppen got lazy on this one, and couldn't be bothered putting higher altitude climates in their own group, or indicating that they are a cooler (all year ) version of lower nearby climates.
Yes I totally agree and have long thought this. Somewhere like Quito, Ecuador while technically a Cfb climate has nothing in common with temperate mid latitude Cfb climates. I think highland climates, particularly ones in the tropics need their own completely different set of criteria to categorize them. Just labeling them as "H" or highland as is done on many climate maps is completely insufficient.
Yes I totally agree and have long thought this. Somewhere like Quito, Ecuador while technically a Cfb climate has nothing in common with high latitude Cfb climates. I think highland climates, particularly ones in the tropics need their own completely different set of criteria to categorize then. Just labeling them as "H" or highland as is done on many climate maps is completely insufficient.
I wonder if Koppen let his guard down on these climates, and decided "genetics" weren't important for some reason. It seems very unscientific -as though it was the end of the week, and he needed somewhat to dump some leftover tricky climates.
Quito is a good example. It looks as though those Polar Fronts really hammer the place ......... not.
Maybe some parts of the Italian Apennines above 500-600 m are classified as Cfb because they have a cool temperate climate (average 9°-10°C), with cool summers, changeable weather all year round and a good rainfall amount equally distributed during the year, in many rainy days.
Maybe some parts of the Italian Apennines above 500-600 m are classified as Cfb because they have a cool temperate climate (average 9°-10°C), with cool summers, changeable weather all year round and a good rainfall amount equally distributed during the year, in many rainy days.
They also have colder winters and the rainfall during summer is convectional more than frontal. These are in direct contradiction of the Cfb definition. If it had a moderated winter, I would expect it to be a warmer winter than the coast, but I doubt that is the case. Pavullo gets 91 days of rain, not that many more than your own climate.
What you described could also be a Humid Continental climate.
The lower elevation version of these climates would provide a far better understanding of how those climates work, rather than my own (real) Cfb climate would.
They also have colder winters and the rainfall during summer is convectional more than frontal. These are in direct contradiction of the Cfb definition. Pavullo gets 91 days of rain, hardly many.
What you described could also be a Humid Continental climate.
The lower elevation version of these climates would provide a far better understanding of how those climates work, rather than my own Cfb climate would.
Koppen continental climates have the coldest month <0°C (eastern Germany, Poland, Hungary).
The northern italian Apennines have averages of 1-2°C in January, so winters aren't cold enough.
They're largely influenced by oceanic air masses, as the entire northern and central Italy, but they have cooler summers.
Various areas of Norhern Italy, such as Verbania, Como, Milan, Udine classified as Cfa, get both convective and frontal rainfall during the summer, which is the rainiest season there. But they're not oceanic because of their hot summers, and not continental because of their milder winters.
Compare Pavullo to the oceanic Stuttgart, they have a quite similar climate Stuttgart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stuttgart isn't influenced from the Atlantic Ocean as heavily as Dublin, Brest, Auckland or Plymouth but it's classified as oceanic too.
Koppen continental climates have the coldest month <0°C (eastern Germany, Poland, Hungary).
The northern italian Apennines have averages of 1-2°C in January, so winters aren't cold enough.
They're largely influenced by oceanic air masses, as the entire northern and central Italy, but they have cooler summers.
Various areas of Norhern Italy, such as Verbania, Como, Milan, Udine classified as Cfa, get both convective and frontal rainfall during the summer, which is the rainiest season there. But they're not oceanic because of their hot summers, and not continental because of their milder winters.
Compare Pavullo to the oceanic Stuttgart, they have a quite similar climate Stuttgart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stuttgart isn't influenced from the Atlantic Ocean as heavily as Dublin, Brest, Auckland or Plymouth but it's classified as oceanic too.
Stuttgart looks more Oceanic than Pavullo, particularly with rainfall. Knowing that Pavullo is at altitude, compared to Stuttgart, makes a clear difference when trying to understand how these climates actually work on a day to day basis.
Pavullo has a climate in which altitude is what makes this climate different to it's neighbours. To best understand this climate, the local climate provides the best model. Altitude is the key aspect which shapes the climate beyond that.
The same applies to Zagreb. It's not different to it's neighbours because it's Oceanic, but because it's higher.
Last edited by Joe90; 10-15-2013 at 02:04 PM..
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