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Old 05-16-2020, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
18,050 posts, read 15,054,808 times
Reputation: 6019

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkier7 View Post
Yeah what I believe about his best work done in his classification are simplifying it as possible yet still translates geographic zone and west-east contrast of wind system on latitudinal step well in basic concept. Of course, world climates and nature habitat in general don’t cut off drastically at one point like a digital clock when you jump to an adjacent border. I’ve heard Köppen initially created 5 major climate types then subdivided into 11 types before discussing the detailed letters of each classification: looks simple and beautiful.

1. Tropical Rainforest (Af)
2. Tropical Wet & Dry (Am, Aw)
3. Hot Desert (BWh, BSh) or Desert (BWh, BWk)
4. Cold Desert (BWk, BSk) or Steppe (BSh, BSk)
5. Humid Subtropical (Cfa, Cwa)
6. Mediterranean (Csa) or 6a. Hot-summer Mediterranean (Csa) / 6b. Cool-summer Mediterranean (Csb)
7. Oceanic (Cfb, Cfc) or 7a. Oceanic (Cfb) / 7b. Subpolar Oceanic (Cfc)
8. Humid Continental (D*a, D*b) or 8a. Hot-summer Humid Continental (D*a) / 8b. Warm-summer Humid Continental (D*b)
9. Subarctic (D*c)
10. Tundra (ET)
11. Ice Cap (EF)
That's because there isn't actually a border.
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Old 05-16-2020, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
18,050 posts, read 15,054,808 times
Reputation: 6019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
Genetically, would you say Motueka's climate is more like Sydney or Paris? And why?
An interesting question - I would say Sydney, because the majority of low high and pressure systems that Sydney experiences, also effect Motueka.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Trewartha, Dc
109 posts, read 25,779 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkier7 View Post
I’ve heard Köppen initially created 5 major climate types then subdivided into 11 types before discussing the detailed letters of each classification: looks simple and beautiful.
What it looks like is Trewartha's system.

Quote:
1. Tropical Rainforest (Af)
2. Tropical Wet & Dry (Am, Aw)
3. Hot Desert (BWh, BSh) or Desert (BWh, BWk)
4. Cold Desert (BWk, BSk) or Steppe (BSh, BSk)
5. Humid Subtropical (Cfa, Cwa)
6. Mediterranean (Csa) or 6a. Hot-summer Mediterranean (Csa) / 6b. Cool-summer Mediterranean (Csb)
7. Oceanic (Cfb, Cfc) or 7a. Oceanic (Cfb) / 7b. Subpolar Oceanic (Cfc)
8. Humid Continental (D*a, D*b) or 8a. Hot-summer Humid Continental (D*a) / 8b. Warm-summer Humid Continental (D*b)
9. Subarctic (D*c, D*d)
10. Tundra (ET)
11. Ice Cap (EF)
I don't understand why you say you like Köppen without changes, but then give this list. This list is exactly why I don't like Köppen, and do like Trewartha - Köppen's actual list has twice as many climate types as this, which means that half of them are just useless complexity.


Also, though I don't know how interested you are, here are some B climates with yearly average temperatures below 18C that are directly a result of the subtropical high, rather than being caused by rain shadows or other effects:

Eucla, Australia

Santiago, Chile

Neuquén, Argentina

(You'll note they're all in the southern hemisphere; climate systems often focus on the northern regions without accounting well for what goes on south of the equator.)
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Paris, Île-de-France, France
2,640 posts, read 2,390,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klimaforscher View Post
What it looks like is Trewartha's system.

I don't understand why you say you like Köppen without changes, but then give this list. This list is exactly why I don't like Köppen, and do like Trewartha - Köppen's actual list has twice as many climate types as this, which means that half of them are just useless complexity.


Also, though I don't know how interested you are, here are some B climates with yearly average temperatures below 18C that are directly a result of the subtropical high, rather than being caused by rain shadows or other effects:

Eucla, Australia

Santiago, Chile

Neuquén, Argentina

(You'll note they're all in the southern hemisphere; climate systems often focus on the northern regions without accounting well for what goes on south of the equator.)
Keeping the Köppen's criteria combined with Trewartha's simpleness sounds better for me.
Appreciate what Trewartha did trim out minor climate zones but I don't take it seriously about his own criteria tells Washington D.C., Louisville, and Milano are fitting under Oceanic climate. That's a big joke who follows the system got no credits.

Here's another idea of simplifying Köppen's classification, inspired by color theory, let's say prototype Mediterranean represents yellow, and prototype Oceanic climate represents blue, the outcome of mixing both climates would result as Cool-summer Mediterranean(Csb) which is green.



-

The three places you gave me as an example are affected by the sea nearby(Eucla), not the high altitude but not really lowland either, even if it was situated lower cold current facing to the west(Santiago) and far too north(Neuquén). For that reason, I prefer to take BWn and BSn as an additional option anytime.
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Paris, Île-de-France, France
2,640 posts, read 2,390,910 times
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This is how I am viewing various climates in the temperate zone:

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Old 05-31-2020, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Trewartha, Dc
109 posts, read 25,779 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkier7 View Post
Keeping the Köppen's criteria combined with Trewartha's simpleness sounds better for me.
Appreciate what Trewartha did trim out minor climate zones but I don't take it seriously about his own criteria tells Washington D.C., Louisville, and Milano are fitting under Oceanic climate. That's a big joke who follows the system got no credits.
Then perhaps you agree with Joe90 that climate classification itself is a joke, given that Köppen has New York City as humid subtropical and Auckland as Oceanic?


Both Köppen and Trewartha misclass several climates; the real distinction between them is that Trewartha's system isn't bogged down with superfluous types.




Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkier7 View Post
Here's another idea of simplifying Köppen's classification, inspired by color theory, let's say prototype Mediterranean represents yellow, and prototype Oceanic climate represents blue, the outcome of mixing both climates would result as Cool-summer Mediterranean(Csb) which is green.
Ah. So we're using both Red-Yellow-Blue color mixing and Köppen's classification scheme. All that's missing here is a bit of numerology to make things really exciting.
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Paris, Île-de-France, France
2,640 posts, read 2,390,910 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klimaforscher View Post
Then perhaps you agree with Joe90 that climate classification itself is a joke, given that Köppen has New York City as humid subtropical and Auckland as Oceanic?


Both Köppen and Trewartha misclass several climates; the real distinction between them is that Trewartha's system isn't bogged down with superfluous types.





Ah. So we're using both Red-Yellow-Blue color mixing and Köppen's classification scheme. All that's missing here is a bit of numerology to make things really exciting.
Not really. Even though the Koppen's Humid Subtropical(Cfa) spectrum covers a bit wide both latitudinal and longitudinal range, I see a common pattern between NYC and Taipei. (Barely or hugely) Cool enough to avoid the year-round tropical condition, warm enough to avoid common frost during most of the winter, capable to bring summer which resembles tropical atmosphere. Continental influence dominates fairly in winter, then conversed to warm and humid ocean to the equatorward-east in summer. It's just a matter of the different intensity of heat and cold. What does NYC, Washington DC, Louisville, Milano vs. Dublin, Edinburgh, Shetland share together beside they're neither fit in tropical nor polar? The best solution to modify Trewartha's is one way to subdivide Dc and Do. I don't understand why Do was never mentioned while Dc and E groups were denoted additional classification on the Wikipedia page. Following third letter of Dc(same as Koppen), I'd call Doa being Humid subcontinental and Dob being Oceanic.
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Lake Huron Shores
150 posts, read 19,199 times
Reputation: 97
I would consider any place with Cfa climate to have an average low above freezing. This means only locations in the Deep South, southern China, and Northern India will qualify. Mid Atlantic USA is NOT a subtropical climate, because it has below freezing nights all winter long. To suggest it has a climate similar to Louisiana and East Texas is beyond insane.
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Old 06-17-2020, 01:10 PM
 
17 posts, read 1,074 times
Reputation: 17
To start, the aridity should be another suffix:

Cf (humid year-round) - Cw/Cs (humid seasonal) - Cz (semi-arid) - Cr (arid), determined by precipitation vs evaporation.

B - average >17ºC (true subtropical) (Bo: summer <24ºC, Bc: summer >24ºC)
C - average >10ºC (warm temperate) (Co: summer <22ºC, Cc: summer >22ºC)
Dfa/Dfb/Eb - average >0ºC (cool temperate) (Do: summer <17ºC, Dc: summer >17ºC)
Dfc - average <0ºC, summers >10ºC
E - average <0ºC, summers >0ºC
F - summers <0ºC
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