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Old 11-07-2013, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Would you consider Vancouver warm temperate? Its annual average is 10-11C and coolest month is just around 4C
you brought up one of the thorny issues I was battling in my head. To be honest I don't have enough experience with temperate climates that are oceanic in nature to give an good answer. all I know is that when I think of a warm temperate climate I think of places that can get snow in winter but it won't last more than a few weeks and that is warm enough for wine vineyards as well as able to grow warm trees like oak, as well as cold hardy palms. so if a climate is able to produce wine like france and italy and grow palm trees than I think it qualifies as warm temperate.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi from the Brunswicks View Post
Yeah right, central NJ is subtropical with a snow showers next Wednesday and Thursday. Enjoy the balmy weather

True subtropical weather is south of Washington DC. All points north are continental.
I never said New jersey was sub tropical. it's on the border of warm temperate and continental.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:04 PM
 
Location: In transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555 View Post
you brought up one of the thorny issues I was battling in my head. To be honest I don't have enough experience with temperate climates that are oceanic in nature to give an good answer. all I know is that when I think of a warm temperate climate I think of places that can get snow in winter but it won't last more than a few weeks and that is warm enough for wine vineyards as well as able to grow warm trees like oak, as well as cold hardy palms. so if a climate is able to produce wine like france and italy and grow palm trees than I think it qualifies as warm temperate.
Well grapes can grow here although not optimally due to lack of summer heat. I know a few people who have grape vines at their houses and produce homemade wine but it's not done on a large scale. In the interior, there are large vineyards due to the hotter summers but they have colder winters with more snow too.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous92 View Post
I'd try to make the climate types smaller and more specific. I'd also try to bring a sense of uniformity by using "continental", "oceanic", etc. as climate subtypes, instead of climates types themselves. London would be "Mild temperate (Oceanic)", Phoenix would be "Subtropical (Arid)", etc.


Warm temperate/Mild temperate
• at least 7 months above 10C
• Warm = at least 4 months above 20C
• Mild = less than 4 months above 20C
• no month below 0C
So NYC is warm temperate, but where I live is mild temperate? I don't get that at all. If a climate has warm in the prefix, then it should be able to support a lot more vegetation types than a mild or cold prefix climate. It also doesn't make sense that a mild climate has a warmer average temperature than a warm climate.

London wouldn't be mild under your scheme, but whatever is below that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P London View Post

Oceanic climates could split up a bit too for far example Essen in Germany can be Sub-Oceanic while somewhere like Glasgow is still Oceanic or 'hyper" Oceanic.
I can't really see much difference between Essen and Glasgow. Essen has more of a seasonal temperature range than Glasgow, so I guess it's a little more Continental. I'm assuming my own climate would be hyper Oceanic because of the low seasonal range?, even though it's sees a lot less rainy days and much more sunshine than Essen

Last edited by Joe90; 11-08-2013 at 12:27 AM..
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Well grapes can grow here although not optimally due to lack of summer heat. I know a few people who have grape vines at their houses and produce homemade wine but it's not done on a large scale. In the interior, there are large vineyards due to the hotter summers but they have colder winters with more snow too.
can you guys grow oaks and cold hardy palms? if so then yes I would consider vancover warm temperate if not it's cool temperate.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555 View Post
can you guys grow oaks and cold hardy palms? if so then yes I would consider vancover warm temperate if not it's cool temperate.
Some palms can handle down to -20C/-4F

Would you use -4F as a cutoff point for a "warm" climate?
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:43 AM
 
Location: In transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555 View Post
can you guys grow oaks and cold hardy palms? if so then yes I would consider vancover warm temperate if not it's cool temperate.
Yes a few species of cold hardy palms grow here as well as southern magnolia and even some species of live oaks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Some palms can handle down to -20C/-4F

Would you use -4F as a cutoff point for a "warm" climate?
I think miamihurricane555 is trying to differentiate between climates like Vancouver/London/Paris vs. Toronto/Chicago/Moscow which makes sense to me.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
18,050 posts, read 15,054,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Yes a few species of cold hardy palms grow here as well as southern magnolia and even some species of live oaks.




I think miamihurricane555 is trying to differentiate between climates like Vancouver/London/Paris vs. Toronto/Chicago/Moscow which makes sense to me.
Oceanic vs Continental is the vital distinction between the two groups.

Warm and cold designations aren't transferable between the two groups.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Miami,FL
2,889 posts, read 3,481,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Some palms can handle down to -20C/-4F

Would you use -4F as a cutoff point for a "warm" climate?
depends on whether or not the avg temp for the coolest month is in the 0-10c range. A place like Louisville,kentucky can still be considered warm temperate even though it lies in the hardiness zone 6b because avg temps never fall below freezing. basically what my indecision is about are those mild oceanic climates on the western side of continents. They don't get cold winters but they don't have warm summer either which makes it difficult to call them warm.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: New York
11,337 posts, read 17,854,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
So NYC is warm temperate, but where I live is mild temperate? I don't get that at all. If a climate has warm in the prefix, then it should be able to support a lot more vegetation types than a mild or cold prefix climate. It also doesn't make sense that a mild climate has a warmer average temperature than a warm climate.
Warm temperate = the warm season clearly dominates over the cool season.
Mild temperate = Warm temperate, but with a less potent warm season.

Mild temperate didn't even exist until I carved it out from Warm temperate at the last minute, so they're ranked equally, although the naming is a bit misleading. I wanted to distinguish climates like London from climates like Atlanta (and vice versa). I'll probably reunite the two under the "Warm temperate" name and divide them elsewhere, or I may just rename the two.

Quote:
London wouldn't be mild under your scheme, but whatever is below that.
The system was largely North American-based, and I didn't get to alter the temperature thresholds, I already have some changes in mind though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555 View Post
depends on whether or not the avg temp for the coolest month is in the 0-10c range. A place like Louisville,kentucky can still be considered warm temperate even though it lies in the hardiness zone 6b because avg temps never fall below freezing. basically what my indecision is about are those mild oceanic climates on the western side of continents. They don't get cold winters but they don't have warm summer either which makes it difficult to call them warm.
I ran into the same problem.
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