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Old 11-08-2013, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Trondheim, Norway - 63 N
3,302 posts, read 1,996,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakobsli View Post
New categories in place of the old subarctic climate zone:

These climates have an average temperature above 10 °C (50 °F) in their warmest months, and a coldest month average below −3 °C (or 0 °C in some version).
No more than three months is above 10 C°.
Note: The boreal and hemiboreal climate needs a warmest month average of at least 13°C, if less the climate is still subarctic.



The first letter denotes mean annual temperature.
H -hemiboreal from 3 - 5C° mean annual
B - boreal from 0C - but less than 3°C mean annual
S - subarctic/ taiga -6 but less than 0°C mean annual (permafrost widespread)
P- hypersubarctic/ hypertaiga: below -6C° (very cold winters)


The second letter indicates the precipitation pattern — w indicates dry winters (driest winter month average precipitation less than one-tenth wettest summer month average precipitation; one variation also requires that the driest winter month have less than 30 mm average precipitation), s indicates dry summers (June, July and August in northern hemisphere?) (driest summer month less than 30 mm average precipitation and less than one-third wettest winter month precipitation) and f means significant precipitation in all seasons (neither above mentioned set of conditions fulfilled).

Some examples:
Fairbanks, Alaska: Sf - Subarctic with precipitation in all seasons (mean annual -2.8C)
Tromsø (100 m asl): Sf - Subarctic with precipitaiton in all seasons (summer too cool - 11.8C - for boreal, mean annual 2.5C)
Narvik, Norway: Hf - Hemiboreal with precipitaiton in all seasons (mean annual 3.8C, July average 13.4C)
Rovaniemi, Finland: Bf - Boreal with precipitation in all seasons (mean annual 0.9C, July 15.2C)

The reason for this summer threshold for boreal - 13C - is that summer warmth is very important for vegetation.
A few more examples:
Anchorage, Alaska: Bf- Boreal with precipitation in all seasons (mean annual about 2C, July ca 14.5C)
Luleå, Sweden: Bf - Boreal with precipitation in all seasons (mean annual 2.3C, July 16.5C)
Yakutsk, Russia: Pf - Hypersubarctic (mean annual about -10C, even here it comes out as precipitation in all seasons)

Seems as the seasonal precipitation treshold is to rigid (10 times), maybe at least 5 times less/ more precipitation in wettest month would be more useful for these northern climates.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Trondheim, Norway - 63 N
3,302 posts, read 1,996,305 times
Reputation: 1624
New categories in place of the old subarctic climate zone - revised (second letter now denotes continental or oceanic):

These climates have an average temperature above 10 °C (50 °F) in their warmest months, and a coldest month average below −3 °C (or 0 °C in some version).
No more than three months is above 10 C°.
Note: The boreal and hemiboreal climate needs a warmest month average of at least 13°C, if less the climate is still subarctic.


The first letter denotes mean annual temperature.
H -hemiboreal - from 3 - 5C° mean annual (some temperate plants occur)
B - borea -l from 0C° - but less than 3°C mean annual (no permafrost)
S - subarctic/ taiga - from -6C° but less than 0°C mean annual (permafrost, but not in all areas)
P- hypersubarctic/ hypertaiga: below -6C° (very cold winters, deep permafrost)


The second letter indicates continental or oceanic climatic characteristics. The climate is oceanic and given the letter o if the mean annual precipitation is at least 500 mm, and the coldest winter month is warmer than -10°C. The second letter is c (continental) if these criteria are not met.

Some examples:
Anchorage, Alaska: Bc - Boreal continental (mean annual ca 2C, July average ca 14.5C, annual precipitation ca 400 mm)
Tromsø, Norway: So - Subarctic oceanic (summer too cool - 11.8C - for boreal, mean annual 2.5C, annual precipitation 1000 mm and January -4.4C)
Narvik, Norway: Ho - Hemiboreal oceanic (mean annual 3.8C, July average 13.4C, precipitation 830 mm and January -4.1C)
Rovaniemi, Finland: Bc - Boreal continental (mean annual 0.9C, July 15.2C, annual precipitation 618 mm but January -11C)
Fairbanks, Alaska: Sc - Subarctic continental (mean annual -2.8C, annual precipitation 275 mm)
Archangelsk, Russia: Bc - Boreal continental (mean annual 1.3C, July average 16.3, annual precipitation ca 600 mm but January -12.8C)
Yellowknife, Canada: Sc - Subarctic continental (mean annual ca -5C, annual precip ca 260 mm)
Labrador City, Canada: Sc - Subarctic continental (mean annual -3.5C, precipitation 850 mm but January average -23C)
Yakutsk, Russia: Pc - Hypersubarctic continental (mean annual -10.5C, annual precipitation ca 200 mm)

The reason for this summer threshold for boreal - 13C - is that summer warmth is very important for vegetation.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:45 PM
 
Location: London, UK
9,992 posts, read 10,521,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
So NYC is warm temperate, but where I live is mild temperate? I don't get that at all. If a climate has warm in the prefi, then it should be able to support a lot more vegetation types than a mild or cold prefix climate. It also doesn't make sense that a mild climate has a warmer average temperature than a warm climate.

London wouldn't be mild under your scheme, but whatever is below that.


I can't really see much difference between Essen and Glasgow. Essen has more of a seasonal temperature range than Glasgow, so I guess it's a little more Continental. I'm assuming my own climate would be hyper Oceanic because of the low seasonal range?, even though it's sees a lot less rainy days and much more sunshine than Essen
I guess Essen wasn't as cold in winter as I thought...

Yeah places with a seasonal range roughly lower than 18c would be Hyper oceanic in my book but to each than status it would also need to have a lack if extremes...

London would be Mild Oceanic while Galway would be Hyper Oceanic.

If your climate averages a range less than 18c and lacks extremes then its hyper oceanic.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,020 posts, read 2,889,319 times
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Divisions are arbitary man-made machinations. I would propose to get rid of these divisions all together. Here is my quick and dirty first draft:

x = precipitation/ (potential evapostranspiration)
y = mean temperature in warmest month
z = mean temperature in coldest month

Each climate would have three variables. Example:

Penticton airport, in my area would be:
x = 346 mm/982 mm = 0.35
y = 21.0°C
z = -0.6°C

Penticton climate = 0.35X+21.0Y-0.6Z
Toronto climate = 0.93X+21.5Y-5.5Z

In °F...
Penticton climate = 0.35X+69.8Y+30.9Z
Toronto climate = 0.93X+70.7Y+22.1Z

From here, you could divide into names if you wanted to. Maybe call Penticton's climate: semiarid -- temperate -- mild.

Last edited by Glacierx; 11-08-2013 at 03:46 PM..
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
18,057 posts, read 15,074,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P London View Post
I guess Essen wasn't as cold in winter as I thought...

Yeah places with a seasonal range roughly lower than 18c would be Hyper oceanic in my book but to each than status it would also need to have a lack if extremes...

London would be Mild Oceanic while Galway would be Hyper Oceanic.

If your climate averages a range less than 18c and lacks extremes then its hyper oceanic.
Not sure what you mean by extremes, as everywhere has extremes, Do you mean an extreme range of a particular value on an annual basis?

London would be Hyper Oceanic under your own system as it's seasonal range is below 18C

It wouldn't make sense to regard a climate as Hyper Oceanic, if it has less rain days,greater seasonal rainfall change, more sun and a greater diurnal range than most climates that would be in your mild category.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
18,057 posts, read 15,074,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
I could add the Oceanic climate as well. Ok, understandable as the climate in most parts of the world was much colder over a 100 years ago, but IMHO cities like Prague are definitely not Oceanic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague#Climate
Prague is very much a continental climate. It has more in common with somewhere like NYC than it does with London, particularly with rainfall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mar89 View Post
What is the threshold between oceanic and continental climates?
An annual temperature range of 20°C?
Oceanic climates are already clearly defined, as are Humid Continental climates. The areas of confusion would be Mediterranean and Humid Subtropical climates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordo View Post
Admitly Auckland which seems to be just as much Subtropical as Oceanic has a mean summer average of 19.7°C so maybe the mean summer temperature for Subtropical Climates should be bumped down to 20°C from 22°C but no more than that.
I actually see Auckland as a textbook Oceanic (Csb) climate, with mild winters and cool summers due to ocean currents. I only think of it as more subtropical in relation to the colder Humid Subtropical climates like NYC.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
10,673 posts, read 8,825,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordo View Post
Admitly Auckland which seems to be just as much Subtropical as Oceanic has a mean summer average of 19.7°C so maybe the mean summer temperature for Subtropical Climates should be bumped down to 20°C from 22°C but no more than that.
Auckland seems to cool for to be under 'subtropical'.
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:31 AM
 
3,578 posts, read 3,154,790 times
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this is a reasonable scale for continental-oceanic imo.

extremly continental
Minusinsk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Turpan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

continental
Dallas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Buffalo, New York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

continental climates with oceanic feautures
Helsinki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Moscow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

oceanic climates with continental features
Gothenburg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Munich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

oceanic climates
Manchester - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Belfast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

exremly oceanic climates
Jan Mayen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stornoway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:27 PM
 
Location: White House, TN
6,112 posts, read 4,370,232 times
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I have an idea.

Climates are given a first letter based on (rough) temperature classification and second and third letters based on various criteria. The system is fairly similar to Koppen.

Group 1 - Hot climates
A - equatorial climates - all months above 25 C / 77 F average
B - tropical climates - all months above 18 C / 64 F average

Second letter: precipitation pattern
m - monsoon - requires 8x precipitation in wettest month as driest month, and at least 1500mm of precipitation per year
s - savanna - requires 4x precipitation in wettest month as driest month, and at least 500mm of precipitation per year
a - dry - less than 500mm of precipitation per year
h - hyper-wet - over 5000mm of precipitation per year
y - meets none of the above requirements

Group 2 - Mesothermal climates
C - subtropical climates - coldest month averages 10C to 18C
D - mild winter temperate climates - coldest month averages 0C to 10C AND warmest month over 10C

Second letter: precipitation pattern
d - dry - precipitation is less than 300mm average yearly regardless of pattern
w - dry winter - wettest summer (warmest 6 months) month is at least 3x as wet as driest winter month
s - dry summer - wettest winter (coldest 6 months) month is at least 3x as wet as driest summer month
y - none of the above conditions are met

Third letter: summer pattern
x - very hot summer - warmest month averages at least 28C
a - hot summer - warmest month averages 22C to 28C
b - warm summer - warmest month averages 10C to 22C and 4 months or more 10C or above
c - subpolar oceanic - 1-3 months average 10C or above

Group 3 - Microthermal climates
E - Continental - coldest month averages -10C to 0C and warmest month over 10C
F - Cold continental - coldest month averages colder than -10C and warmest month over 10C

Second letter: precipitation pattern
d - dry - precipitation is less than 300mm average yearly regardless of pattern
w - dry winter - wettest summer (warmest 6 months) month is at least 3x as wet as driest winter month
s - dry summer - wettest winter (coldest 6 months) month is at least 3x as wet as driest summer month
y - none of the above conditions are met

Third letter: summer pattern
x - very hot summer - warmest month averages at least 28C
a - hot summer - warmest month averages 22C to 28C
b - warm summer - warmest month averages 10C to 22C and 4 months or more 10C or above
c - subarctic - 1-3 months average 10C or above

Optional fourth letter:
r - brutal winter - coldest month averages below -40C

Group 4: Polar climates
G - Warmest month averages 0C to 10C
H - Warmest month averages under 0C

Second letter: precipitation
d - dry - under 50mm of precipitation
g - general - 50mm to 600mm of precipitation
t - wet - 600mm+ of precipitation

Optional third letter:
r - brutal winter - winter coldest average -60C to -40C
v - HOLY CRAP - winter coldest average below -60C
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 6,570,315 times
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There are many different ways to classify climates, and many granularities. Some quick Googling turned up this. It needs more resolution, because grouping Hawaii with the South is ridiculous. Hawaii doesn't have much seasonality and at sea level temperatures are usually above 60.

U.S. Climate Zones-Households -

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