Can Climate be Identified by Vegetation? (season, degree, sun, North)

[Mhc1985]

No, you can't do it by vegetation alone. There are many other features that modify the natural environments besides weather, namely rivers, soil, level of the terrain, etc. For instance, close to Buenos Aires you have gallery forests around the Parana River (the southernmost part of the Atlantic Forest), the almost tree-less pampas grasslands (currently very anthropized). Surrounding the pampas you have the bushy espinal. You can hardly identify different climates from them, yet the environments are quite different.

Going northwards in the country, within a single climate area, you have a mosaic of environments composed by the Paraná subtropical rainforest, the Paraná savannah, the Iberá Marshes, more gallery forests and the Chaco forests.

Of course, correlation between vegetation and climate does exist, and it is very noticeable and important, but they don't enterely match.

[Mac15]

Originally Posted by nei

London isn't that similar to the warmer parts of New Zealand, regardless of both getting an oceanic designation.

But the forested areas of the northwestern Europe resemble northern US forested areas more so than pacific northwest ones despite being more similar to the Pacific Northwest.

I don't think so. What about the spruces we have?

[irlinit]

Originally Posted by Rozenn

Non-artificial landscapes look drier in LA:
[URL="https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Los+Angeles,+CA,+United+States&hl=en&ll=34. 124027,-118.298035&spn=0.211453,0.41851&sll=-33.796923,150.922433&sspn=1.35575,2.688904&oq=los+ a&t=h&hnear=Los+Angeles,+Los+Angeles+County,+Calif ornia,+United+States&layer=c&cbll=34.12363,-118.298035&panoid=W-Yz1YXY6aWl_aJk6Vz8IQ&cbp=12,21.19,,0,1.33&z=12"]https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Los+Angeles,+CA,+United+States&hl=en&ll=34. 124027,-118.298035&spn=0.211453,0.41851&sll=-33.796923,150.922433&sspn=1.35575,2.688904&oq=los+ a&t=h&hnear=Los+Angeles,+Los+Angeles+County,+Calif ornia,+United+States&layer=c&cbll=34.12363,-118.298035&panoid=W-Yz1YXY6aWl_aJk6Vz8IQ&cbp=12,21.19,,0,1.33&z=12[/URL]
[URL="https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Los+Angeles,+CA,+United+States&hl=en&ll=34. 011241,-118.356158&spn=0.026467,0.052314&sll=-33.796923,150.922433&sspn=1.35575,2.688904&oq=los+ a&t=h&hnear=Los+Angeles,+Los+Angeles+County,+Calif ornia,+United+States&layer=c&cbll=34.011241,-118.356158&panoid=HAzACYcpWK6Nh6yqYMk9Qg&cbp=12,22 4.82,,0,5.46&z=15"]https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Los+Angeles,+CA,+United+States&hl=en&ll=34. 011241,-118.356158&spn=0.026467,0.052314&sll=-33.796923,150.922433&sspn=1.35575,2.688904&oq=los+ a&t=h&hnear=Los+Angeles,+Los+Angeles+County,+Calif ornia,+United+States&layer=c&cbll=34.011241,-118.356158&panoid=HAzACYcpWK6Nh6yqYMk9Qg&cbp=12,22 4.82,,0,5.46&z=15[/URL]
[URL="https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Los+Angeles,+CA,+United+States&hl=en&ll=34. 095316,-118.504028&spn=0.211525,0.41851&sll=-33.796923,150.922433&sspn=1.35575,2.688904&oq=los+ a&t=h&hnear=Los+Angeles,+Los+Angeles+County,+Calif ornia,+United+States&layer=c&cbll=34.095566,-118.503883&panoid=Xr0gJcH7aM89Jdx9JBxYvg&cbp=12,23 1.9,,0,0&z=12"]https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Los+Angeles,+CA,+United+States&hl=en&ll=34. 095316,-118.504028&spn=0.211525,0.41851&sll=-33.796923,150.922433&sspn=1.35575,2.688904&oq=los+ a&t=h&hnear=Los+Angeles,+Los+Angeles+County,+Calif ornia,+United+States&layer=c&cbll=34.095566,-118.503883&panoid=Xr0gJcH7aM89Jdx9JBxYvg&cbp=12,23 1.9,,0,0&z=12[/URL]



The first evergreen shrub forests are not really 150 miles south of Paris, but further away.

345 miles down the road
[URL="https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Valence,+France&hl=en&ll=45.097276,4.888787 &spn=0.022418,0.052314&sll=34.095601,-118.504028&sspn=0.211524,0.41851&oq=valence&t=h&hn ear=Valence,+Drome,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&z=15&layer=c&cbll=45.097201,4.888959 &panoid=-f21BvzWodLiBePS_9uhbg&cbp=12,188.93,,0,0.96"]https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Valence,+France&hl=en&ll=45.097276,4.888787 &spn=0.022418,0.052314&sll=34.095601,-118.504028&sspn=0.211524,0.41851&oq=valence&t=h&hn ear=Valence,+Drome,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&z=15&layer=c&cbll=45.097201,4.888959 &panoid=-f21BvzWodLiBePS_9uhbg&cbp=12,188.93,,0,0.96[/URL]


The official transition between oceanic and mediterranean climates is somewhere in betwen.

370 miles
[URL="https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Valence,+France&hl=en&ll=44.700705,4.85052& spn=0.04539,0.104628&sll=34.095601,-118.504028&sspn=0.211524,0.41851&oq=valence&t=h&hn ear=Valence,+Drome,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&z=14&layer=c&cbll=44.700705,4.85052& panoid=qbJ87EGpxrX7vVnT7a8K2w&cbp=12,324.19,,0,3.5 4"]https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Valence,+France&hl=en&ll=44.700705,4.85052& spn=0.04539,0.104628&sll=34.095601,-118.504028&sspn=0.211524,0.41851&oq=valence&t=h&hn ear=Valence,+Drome,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&z=14&layer=c&cbll=44.700705,4.85052& panoid=qbJ87EGpxrX7vVnT7a8K2w&cbp=12,324.19,,0,3.5 4[/URL]

405 miles
[URL="https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Valence,+France&hl=en&ll=44.206819,4.724293 &spn=0.09155,0.209255&sll=34.095601,-118.504028&sspn=0.211524,0.41851&oq=valence&t=h&hn ear=Valence,+Drome,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&layer=c&cbll=44.210632,4.73312&panoi d=L0AACMgBbOj_rYZAXCEKPw&cbp=12,220.75,,0,12.18&z= 13"]https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Valence,+France&hl=en&ll=44.206819,4.724293 &spn=0.09155,0.209255&sll=34.095601,-118.504028&sspn=0.211524,0.41851&oq=valence&t=h&hn ear=Valence,+Drome,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&layer=c&cbll=44.210632,4.73312&panoi d=L0AACMgBbOj_rYZAXCEKPw&cbp=12,220.75,,0,12.18&z= 13[/URL]

450 miles
[URL="https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Valence,+France&hl=en&ll=43.726204,4.904194 &spn=0.046147,0.104628&sll=34.095601,-118.504028&sspn=0.211524,0.41851&oq=valence&t=h&hn ear=Valence,+Drome,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&layer=c&cbll=43.725964,4.904159&pano id=9Is3ySwccLSn2y-euyUFnA&cbp=12,128.54,,0,3.1&z=14"]https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Valence,+France&hl=en&ll=43.726204,4.904194 &spn=0.046147,0.104628&sll=34.095601,-118.504028&sspn=0.211524,0.41851&oq=valence&t=h&hn ear=Valence,+Drome,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&layer=c&cbll=43.725964,4.904159&pano id=9Is3ySwccLSn2y-euyUFnA&cbp=12,128.54,,0,3.1&z=14[/URL]

Perhaps you are right, it is further away than 150 miles, I probably lose track of distance. I normally drive there in Spring/Summer/Autumn so it has the feel of looking increasingly more Mediterranean-ish when the trees have leaves on them I guess!

When I drive to Bordeaux or Biarritz, even though it is still oceanic, I also get the feel that south of about Poitiers or Angouleme the landscape changes drastically. South of Poitiers the buildings begin to have those terracotta tiles instead of grey slate and the trees definitely change. Driving on the A63 (I think it is that road) from Bordeaux to Biarritz the whole way down pretty much is pine forest.


[url]https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-1.067094!3d43.954355!2m2!1f72!2f86.98!4f90!2m12!1e 1!2m7!1sZy993UxrgaVhve0UgzrkJg!2e0!5sRoute+de+Sain t-Jacques!6f733.5656!8s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3F cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26output%3Dthumbnail%2 6thumb%3D2%26panoid%3DZy993UxrgaVhve0UgzrkJg%26w%3 D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D227%26pitch%3D0%26ll%3D43.9 54355%2C-1.067094!9m1!6sRoute+de+Saint-Jacques!5m2!1sZy993UxrgaVhve0UgzrkJg!2e0&fid=5[/url]

[url]https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-1.416137!3d43.602621!2m2!1f267.74!2f79.38!4f75!2m1 2!1e1!2m7!1sUgGr0YipvBSV1Hzu7LXzow!2e0!5sAutoroute +de+la+C%C3%B4te+Basque!6f642.1653!8s%2F%2Fgeo0.gg pht.com%2Fcbk%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26outp ut%3Dthumbnail%26thumb%3D2%26panoid%3DUgGr0YipvBSV 1Hzu7LXzow%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D262%26pitch %3D0%26ll%3D43.602621%2C-1.416137!9m1!6sAutoroute+de+la+C%C3%B4te+Basque!5m 2!1sUgGr0YipvBSV1Hzu7LXzow!2e0&fid=5[/url]


Interestingly, although there may not be much difference at all, I find that my journey from London - south France changes quite a lot. Driving to Dover/ Portsmouth the climate feels different as the vegetation is different from most of the roads I use in Normandy/Picardy.


[url]https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-0.85068!3d51.076503!2m2!1f253.62!2f77.61!4f75!2m12 !1e1!2m7!1sA6JnjP2CVwTQchH9lm3whA!2e0!5sA3!6f602.7 121!8s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fcb_client%3Dmap s_sv.tactile%26output%3Dthumbnail%26thumb%3D2%26pa noid%3DA6JnjP2CVwTQchH9lm3whA%26w%3D203%26h%3D100% 26yaw%3D166%26pitch%3D0%26ll%3D51.076503%2C-0.850680!9m1!6sA3!5m2!1sA6JnjP2CVwTQchH9lm3whA!2e0 &fid=5[/url]

Travelling through northern France it then feels totally different, perhaps because there are fewer trees on the routes I use, most of the land by roads in northern France is used for farming, I find.

[url]https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-0.274013!3d49.031367!2m2!1f167.82!2f91.6!4f75!2m12 !1e1!2m7!1sSsKn7eTMfYGF6HjZPDdvbA!2e0!5sN158!6f699 .7081!8s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fcb_client%3Dm aps_sv.tactile%26output%3Dthumbnail%26thumb%3D2%26 panoid%3DSsKn7eTMfYGF6HjZPDdvbA%26w%3D203%26h%3D10 0%26yaw%3D251%26pitch%3D0%26ll%3D49.031367%2C-0.274013!9m1!6sN158!5m2!1sSsKn7eTMfYGF6HjZPDdvbA!2 e0&fid=5[/url]

[Mac15]

Originally Posted by nei

London isn't that similar to the warmer parts of New Zealand, regardless of both getting an oceanic designation.

But the forested areas of the northwestern Europe resemble northern US forested areas more so than pacific northwest ones despite being more similar to the Pacific Northwest.

Why are we even comparing London its all buildings and its not realistic.

[P London]

Originally Posted by Mac15

I don't think so. What about the spruces we have?

The spruces we have are not native but invasive and was planted during the last century to restore wood stock.

But yes we can grow them because of our similar climate to were they're from but they don't belong in the British isles' ecology.

[Mac15]

Originally Posted by P London

The spruces we have are not native but invasive and was planted during the last century to restore wood stock.

But yes we can grow them because of our similar climate to were they're from but they don't belong in the British isles' ecology.

Yes that is true but they are now part of our ecosystem so they have to be considered in this thread.

[nei]

Originally Posted by Mac15

Why are we even comparing London its all buildings and its not realistic.

I'm referring to the vegetation in and around London, it's not buildings everywhere.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=londo...43.41,,0,10.92

[nei]

Originally Posted by Mac15

Yes that is true but they are now part of our ecosystem so they have to be considered in this thread.

Should it? Are we focusing on the native vegetation or what grows there?

[Ariete]

I say it can be in broad terms. There's a huge variation, but in the end you can notice if the overall vegetation is subarctic or tropical, or if it's dry or wet. You cannot pinpoint it, but you can make it somewhat approxiate. One tropical garden in London don't make a difference, eventually you'll notice what the vegetation and climate is.

Quick examples,

a side road in Northern Finland:
http://goo.gl/maps/h335h

a side road in Denmark:
http://goo.gl/maps/j6YEZ

[Joe90]

Originally Posted by nei

Should it? Are we focusing on the native vegetation or what grows there?

Good question. What becomes invasive, can be interesting. For here, most invasive species would be Mediterranean/subtropical species with no northern deciduous/fir species considered invasive.

Cold climate species that are invasive here, are typically aquatic plants that find conditions favourable for active growth all year. It's only frequently flooded rivers here, that keep them in check.

I think looking at an area's vegetation gives me a better feel for the actual climate, than some broad label does. If I want to get to gauge how similar a climate is to here, the backyard is a good place to look. On that basis, milder Mediterranean climates and the warmer Oceanic climates (Spain/Portugal )are the climates that most resemble conditions here on a actual day to day basis.