Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Group C is Koppen's "dumping ground" zone, where he just placed all climates that don't (to him) clearly classify as tropical, arid, continental or polar. A range of 0C to 18C in the coldest month (the revised version) is laughable, let alone the original -3 to 18.
FWIW here's how I'd split it:
Subtropical: all months above 8C with at least one above 18C
Mediterranean (I posted my formula for that in another thread, about which cities would you classify as Mediterranean).
"Sub-continental": coldest month 0-8C, warmest above 18C. Basically similar to continental but with slightly warmer winters.
Temperate: all months 0-18C. Warm temperate if coldest month above 8C, cool temperate coldest month <8C but warmest >13C, cold temperate all months 0-13C (can't be polar if all months are above 0C).
The olive orchard photo could just as easily be a Cfb scene. Olives aren't a good plant to highlight Mediterranean climates, as they quite hardy and don't require much warmth for good cropping.
I disagree.
Olive trees are the symbolic plant of the Mediterranean climates and they requires mild winters and warm/hot summers. They represent very well the mediterranean biome.
And olives, stone pines and cypresses create the historic landscape of Tuscany, which is fully mediterranean, not humid subtropical (due to a few thunderstorms).
Subtropical: all months above 8C with at least one above 18C
Mediterranean (I posted my formula for that in another thread, about which cities would you classify as Mediterranean).
"Sub-continental": coldest month 0-8C, warmest above 18C. Basically similar to continental but with slightly warmer winters.
Temperate: all months 0-18C. Warm temperate if coldest month above 8C, cool temperate coldest month <8C but warmest >13C, cold temperate all months 0-13C (can't be polar if all months are above 0C).
So you would class London/SE England as sub-continental with a July/August mean of 19C. I would raise the upper limit to 20C and classify it as temperate.
I suppose, vegetation pattern of Kharkiv is pretty unusual for a Dfb climate. Most trees here are decidious, there are not many pines here and spruces don't grow here in nature at all.
I disagree.
Olive trees are the symbolic plant of the Mediterranean climates and they requires mild winters and warm/hot summers. They represent very well the mediterranean biome.
And olives, stone pines and cypresses create the historic landscape of Tuscany, which is fully mediterranean, not humid subtropical (due to a few thunderstorms).
Olive trees do need a mild winter, but mild summers are also sufficient for commercial production in most varieties. Olive production for both eating and oil occurs in most of NZ.
Olives, stone pines and cypresses may represent the typical Mediterranean landscape, but they also thrive in many Cfb climates, and would be regarded as typical rural/garden vegetation around here.
My point was, that your photo didn't strike me as particularly Mediterranean looking, more just a scene of an olive orchard, that could be either Med or Cfb.
So you would class London/SE England as sub-continental with a July/August mean of 19C. I would raise the upper limit to 20C and classify it as temperate.
Yes. It has a different climate in summer from the rest of the UK, which has seemed to be even more pronounced in the last 10-15 years or so. It's more similar to Paris than Glasgow, Manchester or Belfast.
Also the Scilly Isles and extreme west Cornwall, and the west coast of Ireland, are warm temperate.
Olive trees do need a mild winter, but mild summers are also sufficient for commercial production in most varieties. Olive production for both eating and oil occurs in most of NZ.
Olives, stone pines and cypresses may represent the typical Mediterranean landscape, but they also thrive in many Cfb climates, and would be regarded as typical rural/garden vegetation around here.
My point was, that your photo didn't strike me as particularly Mediterranean looking, more just a scene of an olive orchard, that could be either Med or Cfb.
The authentic "mediterranean look" is made of olives (first of all), cypresses, vines, figs, and plants of the mediterranean forests (oak, laurel, rosemary, arbutus etc.).
Native mediterranean vegetation also include many decidous plants.
Other plants often associated with mediterranean climates, like palms, bougainville, agave, indian figs, citrus like those you can find in Sicily, Crete or Malaga are absolutely not mediterranean and they can't represent a mediterranean climate.
Extensive olive groves are exclusive of the Mediterranean basin. Some oceanic locations may have olives but they're not traditionally part of their landscape, they were introduced as fashionable plants in villas and estates, and they thrive because olives like hot summers.
Olives don't thrive at all in Tuscany, they are largely cultivated from many centuries, creating a recognizable landscape that is undoubtly mediterranean, like southern Italy, southern Spain or Greece. I don't see any difference.
My point is that Florence and other areas of Italy are classified as subtropical but they have nothing in common with real subtropical climates, while they are very similar to nearby Mediterranean climates, having similar temperatures, damp winters and mostly drysummers.
The whole amount of summer rainfall come from a few thunderstorms of 30 minutes each, and the grass (for example) is usually brown/yellow for months in summer, due to the total lack of precipitations.
Drought combined with heat is a problem during most of summers, while in winter there are many rainy days. Rainfall has a maximum in November (instead of December like most of Med climates).
The threshold of 1/3 of the rainfall of the rainiest winter month is generic, and November is not a winter month but it's very close to winter. The reality is that autumn-winter is the rainy season, while summer is the dry season, the same of mediterranean climates.
Classification of forestal vegetation in Italy:
Blue and pink represent two types of Mediterranean vegetation (zones of Laurel).
Pink colour includes Florence, Rimini, Ancona, Pescara (humid subtropical) and Rome, Grosseto, Elba Island, inner Sardinia, inner Sicily and Apulia (classified as mediterranean).
Light yellow is central European vegetation (continental and oceanic: zone of Chestnut).
Some oceanic locations may have olives but they're not traditionally part of their landscape, they were introduced as fashionable plants in villas and estates, and they thrive because olives like hot summers.
I still disagree. Olives don't need a hot summer for viable commercial production (100kg+ a year per tree). A frost free spring and a cool summer such as occurs here, is enough.
There is an element of fashion about olives, although that has since passed. The main problem for growing them here is that they can't compete with cheaper European exports -which I suspect is more due to subsidies than climate (although the Mediterranean would still be a better climate for them). Imported olives are very cheap here compared to the local stuff.
Some oceanic locations may have olives but they're not traditionally part of their landscape, they were introduced as fashionable plants in villas and estates, and they thrive because olives like hot summers.
QUOTE]
I still disagree. Olives don't need a hot summer for viable commercial production (100kg+ a year per tree). A frost free spring and a cool summer such as occurs here is enough.
There is an element of fashion about olives, although that has since passed. The main problem for growing them here is that they can't compete with cheaper European exports -which I suspect is more due to subsidies than climate (although the Mediterranean would still be a better climate for them). Imported olives are very cheap here compared to the local stuff.
I don't think you get the point...
Olive trees are not naturally suited for moist oceanic climates but dry summer temperate climates.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
