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Old 04-28-2014, 09:16 AM
 
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I don't understand why Salt Lake City is only as cold as Cleveland when it's 3500 feet further up. It's too far from the Pacific to have any moderating influence from there and the Chinook effect only exists east of the Rockies.

Do you think it's because the mountains of the West "shield" the intermountain region from the Arctic air masses while the east is more or less naked to them?
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicymeatball View Post
I don't understand why Salt Lake City is only as cold as Cleveland when it's 3500 feet further up. It's too far from the Pacific to have any moderating influence from there and the Chinook effect only exists east of the Rockies.

Do you think it's because the mountains of the West "shield" the intermountain region from the Arctic air masses while the east is more or less naked to them?

The Rocky Mountains help push the jetstream into a contorted position that in winter keeps bringing down arctic air from Canada. I'm always amazed how the averages for Boise are so much warmer than similar latitudes and elevation locations in the East. Boise with Jan avg of 38/25F is a lot warmer than Portland, Maine which is at sea level and on the ocean, lol. Portland Jan avg temps 31/13F are way colder than Boise.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicymeatball View Post
Do you think it's because the mountains of the West "shield" the intermountain region from the Arctic air masses while the east is more or less naked to them?
Basically yes. Also the mountains shield the west from precip lowering humidity. This allows for air temps to rise higher. We all know that it's easier to heat dry air than humid air. That's why many interior states see maximum temps higher than the east during the summer, but also lower minimum temps as well. Dry air cools faster too.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: United Nations
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If you think about this, the exactly same thing happens in Asia: the region between Black Sea and Caspian Sea, and even a little east of the Caspian Sea, for example, is a lot warmer than Eastern Asia. I think it's because when the mild ocean air arrives on a continent, the air is mild, right? But then, it becomes desert-like and very hot, and then again, proceding further east, it becomes very cold in the winter. Think about the correlation:

Coastal North America: Coastal Western Europe
North American desert: Sahara desert
Rocky Mountains: Ural Mountains
Western China: Colorado
Eastern Asia: Midwest
Japan: Coastal Eastern USA

It makes sense, if you think about this, they have very similar climates, I think it's because of the air currents patterns or the Jet Stream patterns.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Originally Posted by EverBlack View Post
If you think about this, the exactly same thing happens in Asia: the region between Black Sea and Caspian Sea, and even a little east of the Caspian Sea, for example, is a lot warmer than Eastern Asia. I think it's because when the mild ocean air arrives on a continent, the air is mild, right? But then, it becomes desert-like and very hot, and then again, proceding further east, it becomes very cold in the winter. Think about the correlation:

Coastal North America: Coastal Western Europe
North American desert: Sahara desert
Rocky Mountains: Ural Mountains
Western China: Colorado
Eastern Asia: Midwest
Japan: Coastal Eastern USA

It makes sense, if you think about this, they have very similar climates, I think it's because of the air currents patterns or the Jet Stream patterns.

Even places away from the Black Sea are warmer than Eastern Asia even though they are thousands of miles inland. I'm talking places well north of the Black Sea like Moscow.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverBlack View Post
If you think about this, the exactly same thing happens in Asia: the region between Black Sea and Caspian Sea, and even a little east of the Caspian Sea, for example, is a lot warmer than Eastern Asia. I think it's because when the mild ocean air arrives on a continent, the air is mild, right? But then, it becomes desert-like and very hot, and then again, proceding further east, it becomes very cold in the winter. Think about the correlation:

Coastal North America: Coastal Western Europe
North American desert: Sahara desert
Rocky Mountains: Ural Mountains
Western China: Colorado
Eastern Asia: Midwest
Japan: Coastal Eastern USA

It makes sense, if you think about this, they have very similar climates, I think it's because of the air currents patterns or the Jet Stream patterns.

Yes I agree. Latitude for latitude, the eastern US coast is warmer than Japan though.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,026 posts, read 3,646,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
The Rocky Mountains help push the jetstream into a contorted position that in winter keeps bringing down arctic air from Canada. I'm always amazed how the averages for Boise are so much warmer than similar latitudes and elevation locations in the East. Boise with Jan avg of 38/25F is a lot warmer than Portland, Maine which is at sea level and on the ocean, lol. Portland Jan avg temps 31/13F are way colder than Boise.
Is it really the Rockies that make the difference? When you look at my elevation adjusted temperatures, you will see that the peak hot spots in generally east of the Rockies. I think it has much more to do with the Pacific Ocean vs. Hudson Bay.

For whatever reason, the west has much more stable air. By contrast the east has unstable air as the warm, wet air from the Gulf of Mexico collides with the cold air spinning out of Hudson Bay. This instability and moisture cools the air year-round. If you were to run a graph comparing the west to the east, you find that the months most similar are the ones in which the precipitation differentials are smallest.

Less precipitation = warmer temperatures until about 50 N. After that, the wetter places are warmer in the winter.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacierx View Post
Is it really the Rockies that make the difference?


https://www.americanscientist.org/is...ge=5&css=print



The conservation of angular momentum, it turns out, causes the mountains of North America to contribute substantially to the dramatic difference in temperatures across the Atlantic. To fathom why, you must first understand that the troposphere (the lower part of the atmosphere, where weather takes place) is bounded at the top by the tropopause, a region of stability where temperature increases with height and which acts somewhat like a lid. Thus when air flows over a mountain range—say, the Rockies—it gets compressed vertically and, as a consequence, tends to spread out horizontally. When a spinning ice skater does as much, by spreading his arms, the conservation of angular momentum slows his spin. An atmospheric column going up a mountain behaves in a similar way and swerves to the south to gain some clockwise spin, which offsets part of the counterclockwise planetary component of its spin.

On the far side of the Rockies, the reverse happens: The air begins to stretch vertically and contract horizontally, becoming most contracted in the horizontal when it reaches the Atlantic. And as with an ice skater pulling in his arms, conservation of angular momentum demands that the air gain counterclockwise spin. It does so by swerving to its left. But having moved to the south after crossing the mountains, it is now at a latitude where the planetary component of its angular moment is less than it was originally. To balance this reduction in angular momentum, the air acquires more counterclockwise spin by curving back around to the north. This first southward and then northward deflection creates a waviness in the generally west-to-east flow of air across North America and far downwind to the east.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Idaho
6,357 posts, read 7,768,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Yes I agree. Latitude for latitude, the eastern US coast is warmer than Japan...
...because the Gulf Stream brings water warmed in the tropics up along the eastern seaboard, then across the Atlantic to the U.K./Ireland/Iceland. The Kuroshio current doesn't seem to have the same effect upon Japan due to the Oyashio current coming down from the Bearing Sea. If Kamchatka was not there, the northeast coast of Japan would have a more mild climate than it currently has.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:30 AM
 
Location: Central New Jersey & British Columbia
855 posts, read 772,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicymeatball View Post
I don't understand why Salt Lake City is only as cold as Cleveland when it's 3500 feet further up. It's too far from the Pacific to have any moderating influence from there and the Chinook effect only exists east of the Rockies.

Do you think it's because the mountains of the West "shield" the intermountain region from the Arctic air masses while the east is more or less naked to them?
Air masses generally move from west to east. So western North America receives its overall air circulation from a giant, mild ocean; eastern North America receives its air masses from a continental interior that is frigidly cold in winter and hot as a sauna in the summer.
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