Four Season Climate = Wet or dry summers? (average, Chicago, day)
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Grew up in where winter is relatively much drier compared to summer, I never got an idea of associate true four season climate with Mediterranean-ish summers.
It's plain English. Four. Seasons. Which you prefer to be the wettest or sunniest has nothing to do with it.
Look, places like NYC, Chicago, Beijing and Toronto have a "basic" four seasonal climate. But I wouldn't say that they have four distinct seasons -- Not when they have uniform rainfall or inverted sunshine percentages/hours (Beijing). In my experience, a four seasonal climate should have sunshine maximum in summer (with no or little rain) and rainfall maximum in winter (with snow).
Besides the air temperature, how would distinguish between a moist, rainy summer day and a rainy winter day in NYC? Yes, one event is warmer, but on a visual note the atmosphere would look the same. Seasons aren't just about the temperature, but the ambiance too. A true, distinct, four seasonal climate shouldn't receive uniform rainfall all year round -- That even kinda contradicts the idea of "four distinct seasons".
Heck, even this climate is more seasonal than NYC:
...Cloudier moist winters with a bit of snowfall, rainy spring with chance of thunder, mild autumn with little rain & hot dry summers.
NYC? Chance of rain and cloudiness all year round, thunder in the warm season and some snow in winter. If anything, you can say it has two distinct seasons; Hot humid summers with thunder and cool humid winters with snow.
Yes, these cities would have a four seasonal climate, temp wise. But those I brought up in the OP are the ones with four DISTINCT seasons. Perhaps that this is a subjective opinion. But that's the interesting thing when it comes to weather. We all have our own notions and perceptions.
Look, places like NYC, Chicago, Beijing and Toronto have a "basic" four seasonal climate. But I wouldn't say that they have four distinct seasons -- Not when they have uniform rainfall or inverted sunshine percentages/hours (Beijing). In my experience, a four seasonal climate should have sunshine maximum in summer and rainfall maximum in winter.
Besides the air temperature, how would distinguish between a moist, rainy summer day and a rainy winter day in NYC? Yes, one event is warmer, but on a visual note the atmosphere would look the same -- Seasons aren't just about the temperature, but the ambiance too. A true, distinct, four seasonal climate can't receive rain at any time of the year. That even kinda contradicts the idea of "four distinct seasons".
Again, yes, these cities have a four seasonal climate. But those I brought up in the OP are the climates with four DISTINCT seasons. Perhaps that this is a subjective opinion. But that's the interesting thing when it comes to weather. We all have our own notions and perceptions.
This is a strange definition. I thought seasons refer to temperatures only, though they can refer to precipitation as well.
It's usually easy to distinguish between a rainy summer and rainy winter day. Duration is generally shorter on the summer day, and intensity higher. Cloud types often very different.
Why are higher sunshine percentage in the summer more "natural"? It's a common situation, but not the rule. I've had summer months much cloudier than winter months, and I never thought that it felt like an indistinct season — temperature is a much more obvious distinction.
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Originally Posted by Ethereal
Heck, even this climate is more seasonal than NYC:
...Cloudier moist winters with a bit of snowfall, rainy spring with chance of thunder, mild autumn with little rain & hot dry summers.
NYC? Chance of rain and cloudiness all year round, thunder in the warm season and some snow in winter. If anything, you can say it has two distinct seasons; Hot humid summers with thunder and cool humid winters with snow.
Well, Dohuk has a higher seasonal range. It's more continental, unusually high for a Csa climate. But someone like G8RCAT would argue that a marker of a true summer would have high humidity and impressive thunderstorms, so New York City would have a more distinctive summer to him.
This is a strange definition. I thought seasons refer to temperatures only, though they can refer to precipitation as well.
They can refer to anything. I believe it's a subjective definition. It all depends on how one person defines them. I personally lean towards the atmosphere and ambiance the most, to define a season.
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It's usually easy to distinguish between a rainy summer and rainy winter day. Duration is generally shorter on the summer day, and intensity higher. Cloud types often very different.
That's true I guess. Even here in the rather seasonless Sydney we experience longer rain hours in winter and shorter heavier falls in the summer. But there are the odd days were we get cool, rainy weather in the summer that go for a day or two (as does Melbourne). Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe NYC and Chicago would get those kind of dull, long rainy days in the summer?
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Why are higher sunshine percentage in the summer more "natural"? It's a common situation, but not the rule. I've had summer months much cloudier than winter months, and I never thought that it felt like an indistinct season — temperature is a much more obvious distinction.
Again, it's just my personal definition. I've always thought that sunshine hours should be, naturally, higher in the summer. Personally, I actually prefer higher winter sunshine, to compensate the cold temperatures. I can't stand gloomy winters.
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Well, Dohuk has a higher seasonal range. It's more continental, unusually high for a Csa climate. But someone like G8RCAT would argue that a marker of a true summer would have high humidity and impressive thunderstorms, so New York City would have a more distinctive summer to him.
I respect and understand his opinion. I personally think that a "true" summer should be drier and sunny, humid or not. And winter should be rainier.
A true, distinct, four seasonal climate shouldn't receive uniform rainfall all year round -- That even kinda contradicts the idea of "four distinct seasons".
I never said it should. I'm asking you why a wet summer & dry winter is less seasonal than a dry summer & wet winter.
If we are talking about "ambiance" or "perception", I would argue that a climate with a dry winter and wet summer is more seasonal due to the humidity of summer raising the heat index.
They can refer to anything. I believe it's a subjective definition. It all depends on how one person defines them. I personally lean towards the atmosphere and ambiance the most, to define a season.
Hmm. From living here, the atmospheric patterns feel different in winter to summer.
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That's true I guess. Even here in the rather seasonless Sydney we experience longer rain hours in winter and shorter heavier falls in the summer. But there are the odd days were we get cool, rainy weather in the summer that go for a day or two (as does Melbourne). Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe NYC and Chicago would get those kind of dull, long rainy days in the summer?
Most rainy days have rain that last for a couple of hours. Once in a while, you get a stuck front where pours for the whole day. Or storm, lull (often with a lull of blue sky), then another storm. Repeat.
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I respect and understand his opinion. I personally think that a "true" summer should be drier and sunny, humid or not. And winter should be rainier.
For me, strong thunderstorms are something that makes summer a bit distinctive; we don't get them the rest of the year. Together with high humidity, it make summer feel different from other seasons.
Besides the air temperature, how would distinguish between a moist, rainy summer day and a rainy winter day in NYC? Yes, one event is warmer, but on a visual note the atmosphere would look the same.
Seriously?
First off you can't ignore air temperature - that's literally the most important defining feature of seasons in continental climates, and one of the most immediate and obvious things anyone will notice upon stepping outside.
Secondly, even if you do ignore air temperature, they don't look anything alike. The length of day, the sun's angle/position/intensity, foliage, the type of clouds, the frequency and intensity of rain, the frequency and duration of cloud cover, etc. all contribute to the feel of different seasons and are very different between winter and summer. A cloudy summer day looks absolutely nothing like a cloudy winter day.
And it's not like a rainy summer gets rain all day long everyday, usually it's just short convective thundershowers on otherwise sunny days. Even Miami averages over 70% of possible sunshine in its wettest summer month despite having around 250mm of rain and 18 rainy days. Most "wet" summers in continental climates still feature good amounts of dry and sunny weather and are very distinct from wet winters, which typically feature prolonged periods of thick overcast gloom and light rain.
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NYC? Chance of rain and cloudiness all year round, thunder in the warm season and some snow in winter. If anything, you can say it has two distinct seasons; Hot humid summers with thunder and cool humid winters with snow.
What about spring bloom and fall colors? You make such a big point about the look of a season yet totally ignore two of the most distinct and beautiful seasonal visuals you can experience in a continental climate. NYC has four solid, distinct seasons.
They can refer to anything. I believe it's a subjective definition. It all depends on how one person defines them. I personally lean towards the atmosphere and ambiance the most, to define a season.
That's true I guess. Even here in the rather seasonless Sydney we experience longer rain hours in winter and shorter heavier falls in the summer. But there are the odd days were we get cool, rainy weather in the summer that go for a day or two (as does Melbourne). Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe NYC and Chicago would get those kind of dull, long rainy days in the summer?
No, summer rain in place like NYC or Chicago result because are convective, this kind of rain is pretty summary because it result of the evaporation of the wet ground during a hot summer days.
The criteria of a "true" summer are the hot temperature, the convection and the humidity, the humidity make the heat more consistent and create a higher feeling making a higher summary perception.
They should be like whatever the winter is. Otherwise it would be a six season climate, don't you think?
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