Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But is there really an accurate mean for latitude when elevation isn't taken into account? The avg elevation of the USA is rather high I would venture. How much of Western Europe is sitting at 5,000 to 7000 ft like the western USA?
I've performed these calculations before to adjust for elevation, and by doing so, shown that Colorado is much warmer than the coast (annual temperature).
Here is the map for July (I cannot find the annual map).
But is there really an accurate mean for latitude when elevation isn't taken into account? The avg elevation of the USA is rather high I would venture. How much of Western Europe is sitting at 5,000 to 7000 ft like the western USA?
I guess I'm showing my island perspective. I only really pay much attention to climates that are islands like mine, or on the coastal fringes (within about 100 km). Other places are interesting, but aren't really comparable to my climate, so tend to get overlooked by me.
I've long thought of climates such as the UK, as warmth affected and NZ as cold affected, even though that doesn't translate into anything useful.
I've performed these calculations before to adjust for elevation, and by doing so, shown that Colorado is much warmer than the coast (annual temperature).
Here is the map for July (I cannot find the annual map).
As I said before, you can't adjust temperatures downward by altitude for plateaus (there isn't a reasonable to adjust by). Heating happens at the surface and so does radiational cooling, and then air cools when it rises. If Colorado gets air moving in from a location with lower surface elevation, then it will be closer to typical temperatures for its altitude. But when the sun is beating down on the ground it will be much hotter than typical 850 mb temperatures.
Indeed, Europe, especially the western area of the continent, is going to be quite the outlier compared to other areas of the world at the same latitude, when it comes to winter warmth. Not only does it have the general oceanic influence west coasts around the world receive, such oceanic influence is warmed up by the Gulf Stream, making for some exceptionally mild winters overall.
That being said, it isn't all as drastic as people make it out to be. Western Europe can, and does get frigid; just look at historical records, literature, texts, etc, and you'll see just how cold Europe can get, to magnitudes that even the "so-called" extreme East Coast of the US can't replicate.
Looking at posts throughout this thread, I see that too many people just blindly swallow data hook, line, and sinker, without even thinking about all the other variables involved outside the data, and also neglecting the times not covered by such data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAlex
I find it amazing that cities on the U.S. Gulf coast such as Houston and New Orleans have colder record lows than London.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theropod
It really is.
America's East Coast climate is pathetic compared to the adjacent areas in Europe.
These posts are nonsense. All it takes is a little bit of reading about Willaim Shakespeare, and his ventures and venues(such as the Globe Theater), and you'll find that London has seen temps as cold as -21C, even colder, temps Houston, and New Orleans would never, ever approach. In these contemporary times, from the time weather records started being kept, the Eastern US has been afflicted by the Cold Epoch weather phenomenon, which then skews the data of the cities to make them look more prone to extreme cold than they really are. During the time of the Native American Mississippian civilization, North America's subtropics were at the natural warm state, with warmth to the point that even places as inland as Cairo, IL, had nigh 365 day growing seasons, meaning that Houston and New Orleans were even warmer. Make no mistake, when the US East Coast cities return to their natural climactic state after this Cold Epoch disappears for good, then you will see how warm the Eastern US really is. You'll also see that London is truly more prone to cold than Houston and New Orleans. Lets put it this way; out of the three cities, Charles Dickens picked one to be the setting of the famed Christmas Carol, knowing that it was sufficiently snowy during winter. Which one is it? I'll give you a hint: it is the capitol of England and the UK.
Thames River froze over solid during the European cold-blast, and even Lisbon, Portugal, down in the Mediterranean, received regular snowstorms in that era. The climates in Europe sure would've been considered pathetic then. So just wait, in due time, you will love the climate of the Eastern US, seeing that the Cold Epoch is clearly easing away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78
I think Europe's climate is better than anywhere in North America for the latitude on the whole. Winters are much milder there which is the most important thing to me in a climate. Palm trees can grow there at a much higher latitude.. I don't see any Canary Island Date Palms here at 49N like you would in Europe...
Well, as stated before, Europe is an outlier. But give it some time, and North America will impress you as well. The Cold Epoch is slowly, but surely, easing away.
The natural vegetation in the Eastern US is comparable to those of other continents in terms of cold hardiness. In fact, some of the flora and fauna in the Eastern US is even less hardy than those of other continents at similar latitudes. So these extremes in cold you are seeing in the Eastern US are mere flukes that will never happen without a Cold Epoch; if they weren't, then Eastern North America would be made up of nothing but deciduous trees all the way down to Mexico, but that is not the case. Lets put it this way; the Eastern US has a tropical climate outside of the tropics (South Florida). Not many places in the world can replicate that. Tropical plants, like Spanish moss, and mangroves, are native and ubiquitous all along the coastal South, the portion dominated by a subtropical evergreen landscape. Tropical animals like jaguars, crocodiles, ocelots, flamingos, and even pythons survive in the South. Such feats can only be dreamed of in the Mediterranean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
And so do cities on the West Coast of the US like Brookings, Oregon.
Maritime influence.
Houston and New Orleans also receive maritime influence. The two cities just happen to have been plagued by a Cold Epoch phenomenon than Brookings, and the rest of the west coast, was lucky to escape. But when the Eastern US returns back to its natural state, and a new interval of weather records comes forth, record lows on both New Orleans and Houston would be much higher than in Brookings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge
Just look at the geography of North America. It's nothing but flat lands from the Arctic down to the Gulf of Mexico. Between the Rockies and the Appalachians, air masses can mover freely, with no geographic obstacles (bar the Great Lakes and the Ozark Plateau which have a minimal influence). While in Europe, they have the Gulf Stream, and a series of mountains in the Center of Europe which shields them from the extreme cold (and heat).
Pathetic if you don't like winters to be cold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
It is not really hard to understand geographically. Europe is like a giant peninsula sticking out into the Atlantic. The bits of Europe that are at my latitude have the Alps to help block cold air, and no large landmass going all the way to the Arctic. There is really no large amount of land in Western Europe once you get to latitude 40 and below. The Iberian Peninsula, Italy and Balkan and that is it.
Greece is also a peninsula (Balkan) and Italy. They have loads of water around to moderate. The winters are what drag our annual mean down.
The only thing North America's geography causes is increased occurrence of tornadoes over the Great Plains. Other than that, nothing else really results. There are no establish facts, encyclopedias, climatologists, or meteorologists that state that North America's geography causes extremes in winter cold. Its only on this forum I ever heard such a claim.
Even without mountains, the prevailing wind-flow of the jet-stream is that of driving, west-east currents, that keep storms tight on the path, never allowing them to go down and bring cold too far South. In addition, the subtropical sun, and ocean take part in helping to demolish such cold fronts. As a result, majority of cold fronts that come to the South are nothing but cool, refreshing breezes that then manifest as mild, California-like weather after the passage.
Tropical animals like jaguars, crocodiles, ocelots, flamingos, and even pythons survive in the South. Such feats can only be dreamed of in the Mediterranean.
Yeah, I hate when I'm walking down the street and a damn jaguar comes out of nowhere and starts attacking me.
The only thing North America's geography causes is increased occurrence of tornadoes over the Great Plains. Other than that, nothing else really results. There are no establish facts, encyclopedias, climatologists, or meteorologists that state that North America's geography causes extremes in winter cold. Its only on this forum I ever heard such a claim.
Even without mountains, the prevailing wind-flow of the jet-stream is that of driving, west-east currents, that keep storms tight on the path, never allowing them to go down and bring cold too far South. In addition, the subtropical sun, and ocean take part in helping to demolish such cold fronts. As a result, majority of cold fronts that come to the South are nothing but cool, refreshing breezes that then manifest as mild, California-like weather after the passage.
Yes the prevailing jet winds are west to east, but what is to moderate the Arctic air masses in the winter or Southwest hot air domes in the summer in the Midwest? Nothing..... Unlike Europe which as much more influenced by the Atlantic
Yes the prevailing jet winds are west to east, but what is to moderate the Arctic air masses in the winter or Southwest hot air domes in the summer in the Midwest? Nothing..... Unlike Europe which as much more influenced by the Atlantic
Maybe for the most part, but I don't know how much Gulf Coast air masses you would see....
All those 20C dewpoints we get come up from the gulf.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
