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Old 04-16-2015, 02:13 PM
B87
 
Location: Surrey/London
11,769 posts, read 10,538,293 times
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Anybody have any idea whether phoenix dactylifera would be able to grow in London? I have some left over seeds from eating a pack of dates that I was thinking of germinating, and eventually planting outside once they are bigger. From what I have read, it has the same hardiness as phoenix canariensis (-8C, which isn't an issue here), but doesn't like high humidity and will struggle? Anybody seen or grown them in humid climates?

 
Old 04-16-2015, 02:30 PM
 
Location: New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Anybody have any idea whether phoenix dactylifera would be able to grow in London? I have some left over seeds from eating a pack of dates that I was thinking of germinating, and eventually planting outside once they are bigger. From what I have read, it has the same hardiness as phoenix canariensis (-8C, which isn't an issue here), but doesn't like high humidity and will struggle? Anybody seen or grown them in humid climates?
Canal Street in New Orleans has hundreds of them.
 
Old 04-16-2015, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,847,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Anybody have any idea whether phoenix dactylifera would be able to grow in London? I have some left over seeds from eating a pack of dates that I was thinking of germinating, and eventually planting outside once they are bigger. From what I have read, it has the same hardiness as phoenix canariensis (-8C, which isn't an issue here), but doesn't like high humidity and will struggle? Anybody seen or grown them in humid climates?

They should grow no problem in London. I saw loads of them in Mobile, AL and other places in the South. They are hardier than CIDP and looked better than the CIDP after a very cold winter there. Think they grow faster as well.

If I lived where you are I would plant them in a pot, get them a little height, then put in the ground. Do you have a yard in London? If so, then you are very wealthy lol.

Edit: Forgot to add that the dates you will get will be horrible tasting if what I heard in Mobile is correct. The tree will look good, but the fruit will be awful as it doesn't ripe properly with the humidity.
 
Old 04-16-2015, 02:52 PM
B87
 
Location: Surrey/London
11,769 posts, read 10,538,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
They should grow no problem in London. I saw loads of them in Mobile, AL and other places in the South. They are hardier than CIDP and looked better than the CIDP after a very cold winter there. Think they grow faster as well.

If I lived where you are I would plant them in a pot, get them a little height, then put in the ground. Do you have a yard in London? If so, then you are very wealthy lol.

Edit: Forgot to add that the dates you will get will be horrible tasting if what I heard in Mobile is correct. The tree will look good, but the fruit will be awful as it doesn't ripe properly with the humidity.
I thought they had the same cold hardiness as the CIDP (-8C)? I'm planning on germinating them in a ziplock bag or tupperware box (this seems to be the most common method online) and then planting them in pots once the roots start to form. I'm in a shared house which has a small garden backing onto a stream (good for hardiness, bad for humidity). I'm not too bothered about the fruit, from what I read they won't fruit unless there are male and female trees.

I actually think the CIDP looks better, but the seeds are harder to find.
 
Old 04-16-2015, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Rimini, Emilia-Romagna, Italy (44°0 N)
2,672 posts, read 3,167,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Anybody have any idea whether phoenix dactylifera would be able to grow in London? I have some left over seeds from eating a pack of dates that I was thinking of germinating, and eventually planting outside once they are bigger. From what I have read, it has the same hardiness as phoenix canariensis (-8C, which isn't an issue here), but doesn't like high humidity and will struggle? Anybody seen or grown them in humid climates?
In Rimini there is a Phoenix dactylifera, which looks good and even fruits in autumn, and which survived, unprotected, the two terrible cold spells of December 2010 and February 2012. Humidity is very high all year round here, higher than in London.
 
Old 04-16-2015, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
I thought they had the same cold hardiness as the CIDP (-8C)? I'm planning on germinating them in a ziplock bag or tupperware box (this seems to be the most common method online) and then planting them in pots once the roots start to form. I'm in a shared house which has a small garden backing onto a stream (good for hardiness, bad for humidity). I'm not too bothered about the fruit, from what I read they won't fruit unless there are male and female trees.

I actually think the CIDP looks better, but the seeds are harder to find.

I was in the South in April 2014 and February 2015 after two very cold winters. The true date palm looked a lot better than the CIDP which had burnt fronds. I'm pretty sure true date palms can take cold nights better.
 
Old 04-16-2015, 08:55 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Goosenseresworthie View Post
not at that longitude... you can even see it with the hardiness zone map, with 8b extending to the Alabama coast west of Mobile. 8b also extends to the coast at Fort Walton Beach, FL. Not that the hardiness zone in particular matters for the Sabal (it doesn't), but it helps illustrate the cold spots along the Gulf Coast, where record lows dip well below the Sabal's minimum temperature of 7°F.
Well, if that is indeed a strong enough barrier to restrict the spread of Sabals (which I don't think it is; there are plenty of barrier islands in that zone that could have held the Sabals and helped out in their journey west), then there is no problem, because with human planting, the barrier has already been crossed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Goosenseresworthie View Post
go 20 miles inland of Galveston...
Alvin, TX Average January Low drops 6° from 48°F to 42°F.

go 20 miles inland of Daytona Beach...
Crescent City, FL Average January Low drops 1° from 47°F to 46°F.

Galveston has more moderating benefits than Daytona. If there was an island 4 miles off the coast of Daytona, it would probably read 50°F or 51°F as an Average January Low.
Apples and oranges for Alvin vs Cresent City. Remember, Crescent City is on a peninsula, while Alvin is not. Also, the airport at Alvin is quite a strange cold-spot, relative to the averages exhibited by the rest of that region of coastal Texas.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Goosenseresworthie View Post
and then die when it drops down to 25°F.
Which has not happened on South Padre for quite a while. Also, remember, Coconuts like hot humid summers, which South Padre exhibits, allowing them to grow fast, and beef up, becoming more established so that, when winter's few cool days come, they can ride it out more easily. The coconuts on South Padre are all still alive and well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Goosenseresworthie View Post
the lowest temperature recorded in Beihai was 35.6°F/2°C which is not as low as the 29°F/-2°C recorded by Tampico.
That is from contemporary records regarding Beihai; before such records, Beihai did document a strong cold snap, with cooler temps than Tampico, with the addition of snow as well.
 
Old 04-16-2015, 09:56 PM
 
Location: St. Augustine, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Well, if that is indeed a strong enough barrier to restrict the spread of Sabals (which I don't think it is; there are plenty of barrier islands in that zone that could have held the Sabals and helped out in their journey west), then there is no problem, because with human planting, the barrier has already been crossed.
I don't think Fort Walton Beach stopped their progression (because it seems there are some spotted enclaves in the Pensacola area), but I do think Mobile Bay might have. Sabals are probably dead after one of those 1°F cold snaps, which happened as recently as 1985.

and yes of course human planting over the past 100 years has ensured their naturalization in LA and TX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Apples and oranges for Alvin vs Cresent City. Remember, Crescent City is on a peninsula, while Alvin is not. Also, the airport at Alvin is quite a strange cold-spot, relative to the averages exhibited by the rest of that region of coastal Texas.
I don't think so. first of all Daytona is on the most northern part of what would be considered the peninsula of Florida. The affects of which are somewhat moot.

and secondly, lets take a look at Freeport..

Freeport, TX
28.9°N (40 miles south of Galveston, TX)
Average January Low: 45°F
Record Low: 13°F from 1983 (since 1959)

the difference? Freeport is not on an island!
It is approximately 4 miles away from the coast, just like Daytona Beach airport.
so even with the benefit of being an extra 40 miles south, Daytona Beach is still warmer across the board.

and did you even look at the relative area? Matagorda, TX is 55 miles south of Alvin, only 6 miles away from the coast, and still has an Average January Low of 44°F and a record low of 9°F. I wouldn't say Alvin is a cold spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Which has not happened on South Padre for quite a while. Also, remember, Coconuts like hot humid summers, which South Padre exhibits, allowing them to grow fast, and beef up, becoming more established so that, when winter's few cool days come, they can ride it out more easily. The coconuts on South Padre are all still alive and well.
South Padre Island is 10a so i would assume it sees 30-35°F at least once a year.

though i stand corrected, i always thought South Padre Island was too dry for coconut palms but apparently people are (foolishly) planting them there and they are surviving for several years.

either way I wouldn't say South Padre Island's chances are any better than Tampa Bay, and all of their coconut palms were wiped out in the 1980's...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
That is from contemporary records regarding Beihai; before such records, Beihai did document a strong cold snap, with cooler temps than Tampico, with the addition of snow as well.
where did you read this? also it can snow being as warm as 35°F.

Last edited by Sir Goosenseresworthie; 04-16-2015 at 10:05 PM..
 
Old 04-17-2015, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,219 posts, read 21,489,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
I actually think the CIDP looks better, but the seeds are harder to find.
Just find a CIDP in a garden setting and there should be a carpet of seedlings underneath them- CIDPs will produce seeds at only a few years old.
 
Old 04-17-2015, 01:44 AM
B87
 
Location: Surrey/London
11,769 posts, read 10,538,293 times
Reputation: 3094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Just find a CIDP in a garden setting and there should be a carpet of seedlings underneath them- CIDPs will produce seeds at only a few years old.
It's not difficult to find them, it's just easier to buy dates from the shop 2 mins away than it is to walk 5 mins into someone's front garden and pick dates up off the ground (after waiting til Autumn).

Last edited by B87; 04-17-2015 at 02:50 AM..
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