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But the difference is in those areas you mentioned, even the UK, the hardiest species of palms didn't die, only more tender or marginal species. Trachycarpus fortunei is completely hardy in most of the UK, so you will see many examples of mature specimens decades old...
The same cannot be said for NY, Philly & DC, no palms are hardy there at all...
December 2010 killed virtually all the Cordylines (not strictly a Palm) round here, but not the Chusan palms. There are loads of them, and they seem to take anything our climate throws at them. (A couple of years ago I noticed a mature one in Shawbury, which hit -19C in December 2010). Being native to China with its horribly cloudy summers surely helps, the species that come from Mediterranean climates can't manage it here. Things like Jubaea and Phoenix can take frost, but not days of 18C and cloud all through August. Some might just manage London, which gets warmer summers than the rest of England.
One exotic tree that does grow well in Britain is the "monkey puzzle" (Araucaria araucana), which comes from Chile, but a bit further south than Jubaea. They were quite a common sight 20-30 years ago, but not so much now because I think they are endangered and can't be exported.
It depends on the species. Some palms come from climates where snow is a feature of the climate.
I don't think there would be any cities that can grow palm species, which don't have any. They will always be of interest to the botanically minded, so if a city can support them, then there will be some there.
Not true. California does not have any native palm trees. Yet they are everywhere because they have all been brought and planted here.
Hobart may not be that chilly in a worldly sense, but it's rather cool. They can grow palm trees there:
umm... yea Hobart is basically a Mediterranean climate (Csb) with a different rain pattern. so its not that surprising to see CIDP. its basically San Francisco, CA or Concepcion, Chile... (and i know San Fran has a ton of CIDP)
frankly Australian continent and related places should be banned from discussion in this thread. too mild. too nice. i'm jealous.
You really have to go out of your way to find a place in Tasmania or Australia that can't grow any palms. The high peaks of mountains, thats about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalSun
Not true. California does not have any native palm trees. Yet they are everywhere because they have all been brought and planted here.
I'm pretty sure Washingtonia Filifera are native to California...
Last edited by Sir Goosenseresworthie; 03-24-2015 at 11:08 PM..
The palms in the video I posted survived February 2012, they probably defoliated but survived it.
However, on average Tallahassee reaches colder temperatures than Locarno each winter and it doesn't look that tropical. Almost all of the plants that grow in Tally grow in 9a zones in Italy and Switzerland too.
Google streetview isn't available for Locarno, what are you looking at
Click on the photo tab in google street view and loads and loads of photos come up.
Tallahassee is not at all representative of N. Florida in general and it is zone 8b actually.
But here is a list of the palms grown long term at the Savannah Coastal Botanical Gardens also a zone 8b climate west of Savannah in a well known colder locale west of the city and coast:
And the Filifera died due to the humid summers not cold.
And that tall palm in the background below is a zone 9b Gru Gru Palm native to tropical areas of the Americas. Show me a gru gru palm in Locarno lol. It needs heat and it isn't going to get any in Locarno, especially in winter. This area is far more rural and out in the countryside than any palm growing around Locarno. UHI's in Europe distort what grows out in the wild there.
And here is a pic of palms around a house in Tally which is out in a rural area far from the intense urban heat island that Locarno affords.
And Livistona decora in Georgia
Why don't you show me Livistona Decora growing that large in Locarno.
And this is the locale of Locarno with the palms:
A UHI on a peninsula sticking out in a lake with huge mountains right behind it. The airport location, much colder is denoted with AP.
I guess this is Switzerlands Florida. Barely. I'd like to see palms growing outside that UHI without protection.
And when you do go into streetview on the south side of the Lake at places like Pino sulla Sponda del Lago Maggiore, all you see is one Trachy palm after another, and nothing else. They are the most cold hardy of all palms and can take down to 5f.
A zone 8b in the southern US is by far a better climate to grow palms in than a 9a in Switzerland imo. At least you get winter warmth compared to cold damp winters and marginally hot summers, despite the one or two nights of colder low temps in zone 8b.
Last edited by tom77falcons; 03-24-2015 at 11:39 PM..
Honestly haven driven from Miami to Atlanta several times, north of about Tifton, GA which is 180 miles (3 hour drive) south of Atlanta you won't see many palm trees anywhere. So I wouldn't say "not too far south". Almost 200 miles is a pretty significant difference.
Even Central GA cities like Macon or Thomaston or even Columbus, GA you won't see many of them. Palm trees are more prevalent in East GA south of about Vidalia or Statesboro.
Well there are loads on the coast from Savannah on south in GA. And Augusta has quite a few as well. If you go into garden forums, many people are growing palms in these areas, you just won't see them in public plantings, including Macon. You won't see them unless you get out of your car and walk around neighborhoods like I did in Mobile, AL.
If you really want to learn how many palms grow in these locales I recommend the two facebook pages I mentioned earlier. They are closed groups:Southeastern Palms and Subtropical group and the North American Palm Association also closed. Ask to join and go onto those pages and just glance thru at what people are growing in places colder than Macon or Columbus. A guy in Carrollton, GA is growing a blood orange tree without protection and all kinds of palms. That is well north of Tifton. It is not in the culture to grow palms in these locations, but they most certainly can.
People in these marginal climates in Europe are just far more experimental. Everyone on the forum notes that about the difference in culture of planting gardens between Europe and N. America.
Palm growing culture is alien to many of these cities and people don't want them. Heck as Bill Finch pointed out Mobile, AL ripped out many native palms years ago and planted oaks. That was common except in tourist areas. There are just as many palms can grow in places like Macon as in a place like Lucarno. But Euro cities are very proud to try and grow palms and present their climates as warmer than they are. I don't think that is an issue with Macon. With an average Jan high low of 58/35F they are far warmer than Locarno Switzerland. And in summer it isn't even close. That is my take. Why else would Locarno have all those palms around in a climate that averages 44/33 in January lol. Same for Budapest and Vienna etc. These places aren't warm in the least, and yet they push palms all over the place.
The broadleaf evergreen planting palette in the southern US is very extensive, and if people wanted Macon could look very, very green all winter. In Locarno the vast majority of trees in winter are leafless deciduous.
Not true. California does not have any native palm trees. Yet they are everywhere because they have all been brought and planted here.
I think you misunderstand my point. I'm saying any city where a palm can survive, will have palms, even if it's only a very few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Goosenseresworthie
umm... yea Hobart is basically a Mediterranean climate (Csb) with a different rain pattern. so its not that surprising to see CIDP. its basically San Francisco, CA or Concepcion, Chile... (and i know San Fran has a ton of CIDP)
frankly Australian continent and related places should be banned from discussion in this thread. too mild. too nice. i'm jealous.
You really have to go out of your way to find a place in Tasmania or Australia that can't grow any palms. The high peaks of mountains, thats about it.
Good point. Warmer Oceanic climates are a cool summer version of higher latitude European Med climates, rather than a warm winter version of NW European Oceanic climates, and this point is well illustrated when comparing vegetation. Recent pictures of Nice on the spring photo thread show the vegetation of that area, and I saw no species, that wouldn't grow here, and most likely Hobart as well.
Hobart has no place in this discussion.
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