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Old 04-21-2015, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Bologna, Italy
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Not to mention that a lot of cfb climates actually can get heatwaves and long periods of drought as well. Think about Germany, Central /North eastern France, etc. I mean mostly transitional climates between oceanic and continental. They are more common in Europe than typical oceanic climates.

Cfb is not only drizzle and lush green grass.

There can be a lot of variability from year to year also. July 2006 was nothing like July 2007 for instance in Western Europe.
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:45 AM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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I think we're less prone to dry spells and dry summer vegetation than many spots of northwestern Europe.
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Old 04-21-2015, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Bologna, Italy
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I would guess so, heatwaves in France usually come from north Africa by way of Spain, thus are really dry.

I think the 30c / 86f mark was reached last week in some spots in SW France, and that's mid-April. Not the same climate as London, but borderline cfb/cfa nonetheless.

I grew up in a city that was borderline Cfa (22c in July considering 1981-2010 data) and seeing brown grass in the summer was normal, even when I was a kid.

When I think of summer I usually think of drought and sun. I guess that must be similar in Southern England, just a bit cooler and rainier or with shorter hot spells.
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:06 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Where in Italy has the wettest summers?
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
As we've discussed, our definition of Mediterranean climate disagrees; I don't think that's the only marker. As for the amount of rainfall mattering at all for Cfb, the definition only has rainfall amount so in a sense it's the only thing that matters. Defining by high pressure can be a problem, as high pressure doesn't always mean the same weather in different regions and seasons, though in oceanic climates there should be some similarities but you're using pressure as part of your definition which is a bit circular. I suspect some European Mediterranean climates do not get constant summer high pressure. Much of California is under a thermal low in the summer:
Anything I've read about Koppen's system, emphasizes geography and air masses first and foremost. Temperature/rainfall thresholds seem to be based on typical characteristics within each of the groupings. Rigid adherence to the thresholds just leads to endless discussions (subtropical etc) with people quibbling over a couple of degrees or an inch of rain -while ignoring what Koppen actually (and climatology) has to say about climate. It's a bureaucratic approach to understanding climate, where finding the right box is more important than finding better understanding. Thresholds are always going to lead to grey areas, while the role of air masses won't.


The dominance of high pressure cells during summer is the most significant marker for a Csb climate, when compared to a Cfb climate. If rainfall totals are used, then it could be assumed that Edinburgh is closer to a Cfb climate, than my climate.

Your map really just shows my point. High pressure cells are the dominant influence of a Mediterranean summer. If that was a Cfb climate with the setup, the cell could be gone in a couple of days, but the one in the map won't be going anywhere, only intensifying.

Last edited by Joe90; 04-21-2015 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forgotten username View Post

Cfb is not only drizzle and lush green grass.
Cfb is not green grass and drizzle at all - at least not in my experience.
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Rimini, Emilia-Romagna, Italy (44°0 N)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Where in Italy has the wettest summers?
The Alps have the wettest summers. Followed by the Prealps, Lake Maggiore, Lake Como and the northern areas of the Po Valley. For example:
Stazione meteorologica di Verbania - Wikipedia
Stazione meteorologica di Tarvisio - Wikipedia
Stazione meteorologica di Como - Wikipedia

Among the wettest major cities (they are wet considering the total precipitations amounts, of around 250 mm on average; rainy days are not many though):
Bolzano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Turin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Trieste - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Theropod View Post
Cairo, Egypt - Largest ARID climate.
Doesn't surprise me!
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Old 04-21-2015, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Shrewsbury UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Actually, looking at 1986, it appears to be Dsb rather than Dfb.
Strangely enough, 1986 here was actually Dwb (Feb driest with 3.9mm and mean below 0C, Aug wettest with 93.2mm). 1997 was almost Cwb (Jan driest month with 10.4mm, June wettest with 96.9mm). 2010 was Dfb (Dec below 0C, July was the wettest month but not by enough to make it Dwb).

I thought Cs climates had to have two summer months under 40 or 50 mm, perhaps that's another climate scheme. Several years with a summer month below 30mm had a winter or spring month that was even drier (2006 for example) or only one dry summer month (2013); to me these are not "dry summer" years. The one that I would definitely call Csb was 1995- All three summer months were under 40mm, August the driest month had only 7.8mm, all three winter months had more than ten times August's rainfall, January was the wettest with 104mm. That was a Mediterranean year apart from the fairly cold December.

London (and SE England in general) has a different summer climate to the rest of the UK (here the driest month on average is March, not June or July as it seems to be down there) but I don't think it's anywhere near being Mediterranean. For a start there isn't enough sun.
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Old 04-21-2015, 05:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
The Cfa year was 2006 (July 22.5c mean), the Dfb year was 1986 (Feb mean -0.5c).

.
To be a Dfb, you need at least one month <-3.0°C. 1986 in London was a Dbf year ("Americanized Koeppen"), but a Cfb year (Original Koeppen)

While we're on this, I wonder if 2014 was Detroit's first "Dfc year"?

And about the OP's question - what would be the largest ET city? Nuuk?

Last edited by 313 TUxedo; 04-21-2015 at 05:55 PM.. Reason: question about ET city
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