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NOTE : (Former) deep Tropical posters can share their idea of their locals' idea of "heat" here (alex985, dhdh and theunbrainwashed are welcome)
In lembang, 7°S, 1300m asl, around solar noon, the temperature can be 22-24C with 50-60% humidity (low/mid 10s C humidity), and even Jakarta people, who used to 24C as being the overnight low, can say that's "hot" due to sun angle.
Even, people say Bromo, over 2000m asl (avg high around 15-20C with mid/high single digit C lows) is "very cold at night, and very hot at daytime, during dry season", even with 18-20C highs!
But, ask the locals in low-lying areas like Jakarta or Pekanbaru during a cloudy (just before rain) 3 or 4 pm (no sun), when temps are around 30-32C with 24c Dewpoint, "do you think the weather is hot?", they would think you're sarcastic.
The answer is : sun angle/solar radiation
High sun angle at noon makes sunny Lembang 23C and Pekanbaru 33C feels just about the same in terms of "heat", according to locals.
When people say that Bromo can get "very hot" in the dry season noon, even at 18-20C, they actually talk about the solar radiation (high angle + stronger highland sun)
Their idea of heat is "solar radiation" or "sun intensity", related to "UV Index".
Even at humid 86-90F/30-32C (around 37-41C heat index!!!) with no rain, if the sun isn't shining, most locals wouldn't say its "warm/hot".
Conversely, a sunny 20-21C heat index10am in Lembang, people would say it's "very warm" or even "hot", due to strong sun.
any ideas? I repeat, posters who live / have lived in deep tropical areas are the most welcome
1) As for how people native to tropical/deep subtropical regions perceive heat:
I've lived in both Singapore (equatorial, 1°N) and Hong Kong (deep subtropical, 22°N).
In Hong Kong: I've seldom heard people complain about heat per se, i.e. on a particularly hot day, though I've met a couple who wished they lived in a cooler climate because it'd be more comfortable on a long-term basis; but for example I almost never heard "It's so hot today, I'm dying" etc.
In Singapore: never heard anyone complain about the heat; if anything, their perception of "cold" is absolutely ridiculous. In late December I once heard on TV: "very cool tomorrow with a high of 27°C" When discussing European/American climates vs. their own, some told me they wish they could experience 4 distinct seasons instead of the monotony of Singapore, but the issue of excessive heat was never brought up. Many also felt lucky that their city had no winter.
2) As for your thoughts on sun angle:
Yes direct sunlight, especially when strong, can make you feel much warmer than the actual temperature would suggest in the shade, but I feel like it's a different kind of warmth. I.e. the sun can feel hot while the air is cool, but say the wind starts blowing and you'd feel a weird, possibly uncomfortable mixture of heat and cold, while when the air temp is high (30°C+) and say it's cloudy, you'd feel "uniformly" warm.
I've found the sun to be significantly stronger than in other occasions 1) at a high altitude or 2) in Australia, more strikingly than simply when at a high angle.
I've felt very warm in Nice in February in direct sunlight at noon with a temp of 13°C, while 18°C and wind in April could feel coolish.
Believe me or not, while skiing, I've had lunch wearing only a T-shirt, at 2000m+ asl in Cervinia in late February, because the sun felt extremely strong and it was windless. Pian Rosa, at 3400m asl, with a temp of -12°C, felt much more pleasant in direct sunlight than a windy, overcast 5°C in Paris in December.
The highest I've ever been is Taglang La Pass in India at 5300m in August. I have no idea what the temperature was; but probably quite low. It felt scorching in the afternoon sun however. We didn't sleep at that high altitude, but slightly lower near Korzok at 4500m. The low the following morning was 0°C as measured by my pocket weather station, so unless the diurnal range was extremely high, it suggests the highs were below 20°C; though the sun made it feel it was 40°C.
1) As for how people native to tropical/deep subtropical regions perceive heat:
In Hong Kong: I've seldom heard people complain about heat per se, i.e. on a particularly hot day, though I've met a couple who wished they lived in a cooler climate because it'd be more comfortable on a long-term basis; but for example I almost never heard "It's so hot today, I'm dying" etc.
Same here, in low-lying Indonesia. "Its so hot, i'm dying", etc isn't uncommon though, especially among hype-ish teens.
Quote:
In Singapore: never heard anyone complain about the heat; if anything, their perception of "cold" is absolutely ridiculous. In late December I once heard on TV: "very cool tomorrow with a high of 27°C" When discussing European/American climates vs. their own, some told me they wish they could experience 4 distinct seasons instead of the monotony of Singapore, but the issue of excessive heat was never brought up. Many also felt lucky that their city had no winter.
Well, the same "hype-ish" people commented like "hey, elsa frozen is coming" during 25C at 10am
Also 27C at 10am with 23 dewpoint in Surabaya, with mostly cloudy (but not raining) skies, a Surabaya kaskuser (kaskus = indonesian board forum) said like "chilly - watch your health" in the Surabaya regional chat thread.
Yes direct sunlight, especially when strong, can make you feel much warmer than the actual temperature would suggest in the shade, but I feel like it's a different kind of warmth. I.e. the sun can feel hot while the air is cool, but say the wind starts blowing and you'd feel a weird, possibly uncomfortable mixture of heat and cold, while when the air temp is high (30°C+) and say it's cloudy, you'd feel "uniformly" warm.
The "uniform warm" of cloudy 30C (with 24C dewpoint!) seems "nothing" or "negligible" compared to the warmth of scorching highland solar noon sun at like 16-20C (hot/very warm with cool winds, they said)
Quote:
I've felt very warm in Nice in February in direct sunlight at noon with a temp of 13°C, while 18°C and wind in April could feel coolish.
I've felt the intense sun warmth of sub-20C in bandung/lembang and "coolish" wind at humid 30C and clouds (no rain) here
Quote:
it suggests the highs were below 20°C; though the sun made it feel it was 40°C.
That's why people here say bromo/dieng gets "very hot" around solar noon. Its only like 16-20C but with very strong sun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90
I lived in Singapore for a while and don't remember the thermal sensation of sunlight as an issue, although I probably wasn't paying much attention.
Maybe because they're used to?
But, for locals here, "heat" <=> sunny
Last edited by divisionbyzero0; 10-07-2015 at 03:04 AM..
Reason: quoting another post
Maybe because they're used to?
But, for locals here, "heat" <=> sunny
I mean me, not the locals. The sun just didn't seem an issue.
I wasn't particularly interested in solar sensation back then, but was spending most of my days outside, so should have noticed if the sun was particularly bad. I think the high dew points offset the sun angle somewhat.
Location: João Pessoa,Brazil(The easternmost point of Americas)
2,540 posts, read 2,004,296 times
Reputation: 644
You forgot me ):
Im Native to Northeastern Brazil,an really hot tropical climate,here at 8am the sun is Burning you head(im not lying),and the night you need a fan to sleep or is pratically impossible.
The humidity here is so high that even in lower temperatures it feel really worse.
I born in the interior,the days were hotter(32/33C) and Nights cool(17/18C).
Here when its raining everybody wear they Cold Outfit,its because its so windy that the Wind chill make well colder than really is,and i really feel cold when it are at 20C raining and very wind..
Im Native to Northeastern Brazil,an really hot tropical climate,here at 8am the sun is Burning you head(im not lying),and the night you need a fan to sleep or is pratically impossible.
The humidity here is so high that even in lower temperatures it feel really worse.
I born in the interior,the days were hotter(32/33C) and Nights cool(17/18C).
Here when its raining everybody wear they Cold Outfit,its because its so windy that the Wind chill make well colder than really is,and i really feel cold when it are at 20C raining and very wind..
Do people there say "hot" if it's sunny even 20C?
And/or, saying "cold" when its 25-27C and raining?
Why some Indonesian can complain the AC isn't cool enough at 24ºC with 50% humidity with no extra layers, but dressed wintrily outside at 30C with 70% humidity due to some "wind"
Location: João Pessoa,Brazil(The easternmost point of Americas)
2,540 posts, read 2,004,296 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by divisionbyzero0
Do people there say "hot" if it's sunny even 20C?
And/or, saying "cold" when its 25-27C and raining?
20C without rain is pratically impossible here,temperature like that only happens after some followed days of heavy rain,and sometimes when it is 25-27C,depending of the wind,it feel "cold".
Not quite, but like 22-23C and sunny (6-7am / sun high enough), do people say "hot" ?
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When discussing European/American climates vs. their own, some told me they wish they could experience 4 distinct seasons instead of the monotony of Singapore, but the issue of excessive heat was never brought up. Many also felt lucky that their city had no winter.
