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Old 10-16-2015, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Paris, France
326 posts, read 1,041,084 times
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Hi all,

I had understood that until now the entirety of the British Isles' climate was comfortably classified as Temperate under the Koppen Climate Classification System (Cfb, i.e. Temperate Maritime, or perhaps spots with Cfc, Sub-Arctic Maritime, in the Shetlands or parts of the Highlands of Scotland).

However, I have come across evidence (Climate: United Kingdom - Climate-Data.org) that suggests that one area around Aviemore in central Scotland actually gets cold enough winters to be classified (just) as Continental Subarctic (Dfc)? Even more interestingly, an even smaller area a few miles south, round the villages of Kincraig and Kingussie, has both cold enough winters and warm enough summers to be classified as Warm Summer Continental (Dfb), i.e. the same climate zone as much of eastern Europe and eastern North America!

A bit more browsing on the same site turns up some other interesting European micro-climates, such as Ã…rdalstangen, Norway, where summers are actually dry enough relative to their sodding wet winters to get the (rare outside North America) Koppen classification Dsb - Dry-summer Continental, sometimes known as Continental-Mediterranean climate.

Interested to know what people thought about the credibility of these classifications, I can't find any further evidence for them apart from this one site. Or whether anyone actually familiar with these locations can attest any of this.

Also, can anyone else suggest some other interesting, anomalous micro-climates in places you wouldn't expect?
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Old 10-16-2015, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Perth, WA
2,258 posts, read 1,304,279 times
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In Western Australia, which is known for a Mediterranean/Arid climate, there's the second highest peak in the state called Bluff Knoll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluff_Knoll). It can get snow (once every 1-2 years) and rarely gets above 28˚C in summer, almost a European oceanic climate. The climate of nearby places is also quite bizarre for such a warm region, with the town of Porongurup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porongurup_National_Park) is quite cold with summer temps of 24-26/10-14˚C and winter of 12-15/1-4˚C. The closest town is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_...tern_Australia
which is a very cold for WA's standards. I believe this region (mainly Mt Bluff) is a micro-climate in WA.
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Old 10-16-2015, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Shrewsbury UK
607 posts, read 649,007 times
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Where does that site get its data from? It has data purportedly from tiny villages, loads of them. And in this area they all seem to be too cold, with January about 2C (its actually nearer 4C) and summer highs of 19 (actually 21 or so). The rainfall looks accurate though.

Dfc does exist in some spots in the north Pennines (Great Dun Fell) and almost certainly Snowdonia as well. This is using 0. In Scotland it probably exists near the tops of the Southern uplands and at about 500-900m in the Cairngorms. In the west and north it probably goes straight from Cfc to ET, you need to knock less off the summer temps to get them below 10 than the winter ones to get below 0.

Dfb is hard to come by, by the time you are high enough to make 0C in winter youll normally not have 4 months over 10C. British Summers just arent warm enough, especially in the north and west where all the high ground is.
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Old 10-16-2015, 06:12 AM
B87
 
Location: Surrey/London
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Portsmouth is technically Csb according to Koppen.
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Old 10-16-2015, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
11,655 posts, read 12,956,707 times
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A subpolar climate in NSW (which is a mostly warmish state): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlo..._Wales#Climate

A temperate climate in QLD (warm to hot state): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanth...nsland#Climate

A wet, gloomy humid subtropical climate in the Middle East: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasht#Climate

Btw, I have already made a thread on this (if you want to see more examples): //www.city-data.com/forum/weath...s-climate.html
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Paris, France
326 posts, read 1,041,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Portsmouth is technically Csb according to Koppen.
What really? Any evidence for that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth#Climate

It does have dry, relatively sunny summers by British summers, but I can't see any way other than it still being firmly Cfb like the rest of Britain. You need to go right down the coast of Western Europe to Galicia in Spain before you start gettting Csb.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Trondheim, Norway - 63 N
3,600 posts, read 2,692,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britinparis View Post
Hi all,

A bit more browsing on the same site turns up some other interesting European micro-climates, such as Ã…rdalstangen, Norway, where summers are actually dry enough relative to their sodding wet winters to get the (rare outside North America) Koppen classification Dsb - Dry-summer Continental, sometimes known as Continental-Mediterranean climate.

Interested to know what people thought about the credibility of these classifications, I can't find any further evidence for them apart from this one site. Or whether anyone actually familiar with these locations can attest any of this.

Also, can anyone else suggest some other interesting, anomalous micro-climates in places you wouldn't expect?
It's true that some lowland areas in the innermost part of Sognefjord are very dry compared to closer to the coast (491 mm/year at Lærdal), and that summer is drier than winter. There might be some small areas meeting all the criteria (30 mm/three times wetter winter month), but I haven't found them.

Another interesting place is in the Otta valley near the geographical center of Southern Norway. Surrounded by mountains up to 2,450 m / 8,000 ft in W, N and S, average precipitation is 278 mm/year at Skjåk. This valley is the only place in Norway where evapotranspiration exceeds available water (precipitation) and there is a natural salinity in the soil. Plants more common in steppe areas are found to grow here naturally. Close to a natural steppe, although there would be some trees and Common juniper if the land is left alone. This is an image of the Norwegian steppe. The water is a lake, as there is a river through the valley, with water from the mountains.



Credit: Hagedesignerens hjørne « Skjåk
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,676,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Portsmouth is technically Csb according to Koppen.
Not quite. It doesn't meet the one third rule.
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Old 10-16-2015, 12:21 PM
 
Location: João Pessoa,Brazil(The easternmost point of Americas)
2,540 posts, read 2,005,110 times
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Valle de Los Patos Superior in Argentina have -5C average in July and 11C average in Janurary,so its an Continental Climate(Dsc). no one can say that in Southern Hemisphere doesnt exist D climates ;D
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:39 PM
 
1,187 posts, read 1,372,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walshie79 View Post
Where does that site get its data from? It has data purportedly from tiny villages, loads of them.
From nowhere. I guess it's automatized via interpolation/extrapolation of actual data. So we must be careful with it, I've already found tons of flaws in the information provided there.

By the way, I think we must stop matching Köppen climate types with loosely defined terms such 'Continental', 'Mediterranean', 'Subarctic', 'Oceanic', etc. D climates are D climates. Cs climates are Cs climates. Period.

Then we can discuss (once again, to eternity) whether the Köppen System is good or bad, but that's a different matter.
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