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Old 02-03-2016, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsessedWithHeavyPrecip View Post
Actually I've seen many references to way more than 20 meters such as 50 or 60 or even higher. Check out the following link on this

Snowiest place on earth - Page 2 - Weather Forecasting and Discussion - American Weather

Search for the part that says

"References for snowfall for Tasman glacier"
or
"References for snowfall on Franz-Josef glacier."
or
"references of snowfall on FOx and Franz-Josef glacier"


A lot of inconsistency in terms of what are the most accurate numbers. Combine that with what the weather forecasting sites say, there seems to be a lot of conflicting information on just how much snow and overall precipitation the Southern Alps actually gets.
I've been looking for a verified snowfall total for NZ mountains for a long time, and have only been able to find widely varying ballpark figures-I wouldn't bother using any of them.

I would rather look at lower elevation precipitation, and peak prominence. NZ does have official stats showing 110000mm annual precipitation in the vicinity of 3500 metre mountains,plus some of the fastest temperate zone glaciers, that descend into areas at which snowfall isn't seen on an annual basis.

Like Alaska and Chile, it also lacks a sufficient network of stations to provide a clear understanding of what and where the highest totals are. Even Cropp River, was only installed to provide information for hydro power station management.

I have worked in an industry with mountain guides and climbers, and frequently asked for opinions on highest snowfall areas. One place often mentioned, was Mt Tutoko - about 250km south of Mt Cook. It's a 2800m metre heavily glaciated peak,with a verified 6700mm rainfall at a nearby sea level location and has had short term rainfall recording showing 13000mm at low altitudes.

I also think low rainfall/ rain day ratios such as Chile has, may show a weakened orographic effect. Methods such as river outflow and ice core sampling seem too imprecise, to make an absolute claim regarding snowfall totals.

Forecasting isn't a tool for estimating snowfall either.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:15 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post

I also think low rainfall/ rain day ratios such as Chile has, may show a weakened orographic effect.
Why would it be connected? Orography tends to raise rainfall amounts more than rainfall days — amplifying any storm passing through
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Why would it be connected? Orography tends to raise rainfall amounts more than rainfall days — amplifying any storm passing through
I don't think Puerto Eden has a strong orographic effect, when compared to Milford. Its rainfall is due to frequency, rather than intensity.

Looking at topographic images of Chile, I don't think the wettest area has the same potential as NZ or Alaska, to amplify storms the same.
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Old 02-03-2016, 01:08 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I don't think Puerto Eden has a strong orographic effect, when compared to Milford. Its rainfall is due to frequency, rather than intensity.
Maybe I didn't phrase my question well? I don't get your explanation.

How does low rainfall / rain days ratios tell you anything about the orographic effect?
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Maybe I didn't phrase my question well? I don't get your explanation.

How does low rainfall / rain days ratios tell you anything about the orographic effect?

I believe he's saying that the topography of this area doesn't lend itself to this effect so

much as in Alaska and New Zealand, because the mountains are farther away from the coast.


I'm not familiar with these distances, other than a claim previously shared that the

Fairweather range is the closest to tidewater in the world.
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Oregon
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Here is A question for everyone. I read a lot about Patagonia having an extreme precipitation gradient which seems to mean or its very much related to having a very fast transition from heavy precipitation to drier precipitation as weather systems move east to west. How much is this related to orographic lift? In other words would say that precipitation gradient is proportional to how much orographic lift is the area? If so then I doubt that New Zealand's southern Alps(even as far south as the Milford Sound) have anything on Patagonia in terms of orographic lift.
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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I think NZ has the most pronounced rain shadows, over the shortest distances, of anywhere I can find. Within 80 km of Milford, rainfall has dropped to 300mm. Cropp river rainfall has dropped to 6% within 70 km.

As NZ is a narrow island, the rain shadows will also get rain from all directions, so the dramatic decreasing gradient of the prevailing direction, is not truly represented. Eg -my location is a rain shadow for the predominant westerlies, that deliver up to around 5000mm about 20 km to my west, but that is offset by N and NE flows, that can still pack a punch and deliver a reasonable rainfall.

Last edited by Joe90; 02-03-2016 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:15 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
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In the Columbia River Gorge, the average annual precipitation drops from 75 to 15 inches (decrease of 80%) in 35 miles

Last edited by nei; 02-03-2016 at 06:22 PM..
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
In the Columbia River Gorge, the average annual precipitation drops from 75 to 15 inches (decrease of 80 inches) in 35 miles
75-15=60 not 80, unless I misunderstood you, Also I find it quite odd why there is a rainshadow effect in the gorge when there are no obstructions, if anything all the clouds should be funneled into the gorge, which would increase precipitation rather than lower?
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:27 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
75-15=60 not 80, unless I misunderstood you, Also I find it quite odd why there is a rainshadow effect in the gorge when there are no obstructions, if anything all the clouds should be funneled into the gorge, which would increase precipitation rather than lower?
I meant 80%, stupid typo there. Read what I mean not what I write.

The gorge is narrow and is surrounded by the crest of the Cascade mountains. So the wettest spot matches closely with the crest of the Cascades even if there's a break in the mountains.

The gorge allows air to flow east to west where otherwise be blocked. And during the usual westerly flow during the summer, the gorge was a strong west wind.
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