Deciduous Trees and past Climate in Southern Hemisphere! (icy, record, temperature)

[ase42dv]

New Zealand has got some deciduous forests. But just a few:

Hammer Springs, Canterbury, NZ



Abel Tasman National Park



same park at 750-800 masl



Mt. Alfred, NZ



Dart Valley






Anyways in the north island you'll find things like those ones, which I can't explain to myself as it looks like an intertropical forest and the climate is oceanic... amazing, a really beautiful and astonishing place.



It reminds me of the Laurisilva from the middle of the Gomera Island at 500-600m altitude (at 28-29ºN in the Canary Islands) and at the laurisilva forests from Madeira (32ºN).

[ghost-likin]

Originally Posted by Junter

New Zealand has got some deciduous forests. But just a few:

New Zealand doesnt have any native deciduous trees,this kind of tree there are imported,I know that the settlers on the South Island planted a lot of deciduous trees there.

New Zealand have Nothofagus species,but all of them are evergreen.

[Baba_Wethu]

Is no one going to mention the fact that South America extends much further south than Oceania? There's a much larger area in South America that actually has got "deciduous climates" than in Oceania where it's only the southernmost tip of NZ apart from mountain regions that are cold enough. This means that there have been much better opportunities for South America to evolve deciduous vegetation.

[Joe90]

Only the Hammer Springs trees are deciduous trees, and they are exotic. The Abel Tasman photos are kanuka - a hardwood evolved for drought conditions, and poor rocky soils. All other photos are evergreen, but just showing the effect of wind or snow

The most jungle looking bush, is actually in the South Island, not the North Island

[ghost-likin]

Originally Posted by Baba_Wethu

Is no one going to mention the fact that South America extends much further south than Oceania? There's a much larger area in South America that actually has got "deciduous climates" than in Oceania where it's only the southernmost tip of NZ apart from mountain regions that are cold enough. This means that there have been much better opportunities for South America to evolve deciduous vegetation.

Im sure of that,but even for places at same latitude and altitude,for example Central Chile/Australia,while on Central Chile the deciduous trees biome became common above 700m,trees on mountains of southeastern Australia are all evergreen,even at nearly 2000m of altitude.

The vegetation of New Zealand remembers the Coastal places of Southern Chile,largely dominated by Evergreen Nothofagus species like N.Dombeye and N.Nitida,with a lot of Ferns,who make them look like a Jungle,but while here in South America the environment change towards east and altitude increases,on New Zealand the vegetation keep being the same until it reach drier conditions and trees don't grow anymore.

Maybe the New Zealand trees doesnt evolved to support very cold conditions,for example,Central Parts of Otago have a similar climate to Balmaceda and its nearby,and while Balmaceda have deciduous trees on its surroundings,Central parts of Otago just dont have any tree,maybe the dry conditions have something to do with it.

[ghost-likin]

The climate in Balmaceda are just too hasher for evergreen broadleaved species,they use to get sudden drop in temperatures,here what happened on July 2000 :



Then,2 years later that happened again,an high of -14C are damn cold for a town at 500m on Southern Hemisphere,for me it border Csc/Dsc due to its unstability,typical of continentalized climates :



And thoses thing happened again on 2004,2006,2007,2010 and 2013,not too long to that happens again.

[Joe90]

.

Originally Posted by ghost-likin

New Zealand doesnt have any native deciduous trees,this kind of tree there are imported,I know that the settlers on the South Island planted a lot of deciduous trees there.

New Zealand have Nothofagus species,but all of them are evergreen.

There is no discernible difference between the North and South islands, in regard to deciduous plantings -they are common from one end of the country, to the other, and the region with the least exotic deciduous trees, would be the South Island west coast.

Originally Posted by ghost-likin

The vegetation of New Zealand remembers the Coastal places of Southern Chile,largely dominated by Evergreen Nothofagus species like N.Dombeye and N.Nitida,with a lot of Ferns,who make them look like a Jungle,but while here in South America the environment change towards east and altitude increases,on New Zealand the vegetation keep being the same until it reach drier conditions and trees don't grow anymore.

That's not correct. NZ has two main divisions of forest -Beech and Podocarp. Beech forest is typically found in colder and higher regions, while Podocarp favours warmer areas and lower altitude.

Beech forest isn't particularly jungle like and has relatively few species, while Podocarp forest is very dense, lush and with much higher species diversity.

Originally Posted by Junter

Anyways in the north island you'll find things like those ones, which I can't explain to myself as it looks like an intertropical forest and the climate is oceanic... amazing, a really beautiful and astonishing place.



It reminds me of the Laurisilva from the middle of the Gomera Island at 500-600m altitude (at 28-29ºN in the Canary Islands) and at the laurisilva forests from Madeira (32ºN).

The photo you posted of North Island forest, is forest that can be found in all parts of the country, but is actually more common in the lower south and at moderate altitude -that photo actually indicates a climate that would be considered a bit colder than is typical of lowland NZ.

[ghost-likin]

Originally Posted by Joe90

.

That's not correct. NZ has two main divisions of forest -Beech and Podocarp. Beech forest is typically found in colder and higher regions, while Podocarp favours warmer areas and lower altitude.

Beech forest isn't particularly jungle like and has relatively few species, while Podocarp forest is very dense, lush and with much higher species.

So,New Zealand have 2 of the 4 types of forests of Southern South America,here are they :

1: Wet and Evergreen coastal florest,from 40S to 50S this forest looks like a jungle,with very mild temperatures,rarely below freezing.

2: Wet and Evergreen forest,but with a higher altitude and located a bit in the interior,this area are most covered with evergreen species,but not the same as the coastal,below freezing temperatures through winter means this area is dominated by hardy evergreens and some pines(New Zealand forests finish here).

3: moderately wet and mixed forest,this are an transitional area,from the wetter and milder west to the drier and colder east,still have some evergreen trees,but they share space with deciduous and pines,temperatures may fall to -15C/-20C(Coyhaique are found in this area)with the increase of altitude the forest became fully dominated by deciduous species(N. Pumilo and N.Antarctica).

4: drier and deciduous forests : this area are the easternmost, with great variance in temperatures,who can go from 30C+ in summer to -25/-30C(Balmaceda as example) in winter,is largely dominated by deciduous trees,who in some areas
form dense stands.

Deciduous forests in Patagonia only reach sea level at Tierra del Fuego around Ushuaia.

[Joe90]

Originally Posted by ghost-likin

So,New Zealand have 2 of the 4 types of forests of Southern South America,here are they :

1: Wet and Evergreen coastal florest,from 40S to 50S this forest looks like a jungle,with very mild temperatures,rarely below freezing.

2: Wet and Evergreen forest,but with a higher altitude and located a bit in the interior,this area are most covered with evergreen species,but not the same as the coastal,below freezing temperatures through winter means this area is dominated by hardy evergreens and some pines(New Zealand forests finish here).

3: moderately wet and mixed forest,this are an transitional area,from the wetter and milder west to the drier and colder east,still have some evergreen trees,but they share space with deciduous and pines,temperatures may fall to -15C/-20C(Coyhaique are found in this area)with the increase of altitude the forest became fully dominated by deciduous species(N. Pumilo and N.Antarctica).

4: drier and deciduous forests : this area are the easternmost, with great variance in temperatures,who can go from 30C+ in summer to -25/-30C(Balmaceda as example) in winter,is largely dominated by deciduous trees,who in some areas
form dense stands.

Deciduous forests in Patagonia only reach sea level at Tierra del Fuego around Ushuaia.

Broadly speaking, NZ could be said to have three main types

Podocarp -with a strong connection to Australian/Pacific/ SE asian genera

Beech -with Gondwana origins and links to South America and Australia

Mixed Podocarp/Beech forest - like my region. Temperature and soil type play a big role in the distribution of both types, and my region has the best environment for the mixed forest.

There's also unique naturally occurring forest types, such as coastal,mangrove, and drier upland environments that consist of shrub and bushes rather than trees. There's also extensive grasslands above the treeline.

Deciduous forest as such doesn't exist in NZ,but there can still be areas with a good number of the deciduous species. It's common to see quite large areas of Tree Fuchsia and Tree Daisy, uniformly bare during winter.

[ghost-likin]

Originally Posted by Joe90

Broadly speaking, NZ could be said to have three main types

Podocarp -with a strong connection to Australian/Pacific/ SE asian genera

Beech -with Gondwana origins and links to South America and Australia

Mixed Podocarp/Beech forest - like my region. Temperature and soil type play a big role in the distribution of both types, and my region has the best environment for the mixed forest.

There's also unique naturally occurring forest types, such as coastal,mangrove, and drier upland environments that consist of shrub and bushes rather than trees. There's also extensive grasslands above the treeline.

Deciduous forest as such doesn't exist in NZ,but there can still be areas with a good number of the deciduous species. It's common to see quite large areas of Tree Fuchsia and Tree Daisy, uniformly bare during winter.

No way,NZ clearly have 2 of 4 types,an great number of decidous trees are required for the 3 type.

Tasmania for example reach the 3 type because of N.Gunni,who grows on the interior together with Eucalyptus.

I've got 2 images of typical 3/4 types from Southern Chile(using google street view).



I've take this from some place at New Zealand west coast,who is clearly a type 1 zone,but I compared with Chile type 1 and I dont know why but this area in New Zealand looks like somewhere in Amazon,quite strange for a place at 45S.