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I don't think the airport lows are relevant to the palms' location, they're probably a few degrees colder. However I can't imagine the highs being significantly higher. Btw I think you're mistaking the mean temp column for the high temp one on TuTiempo.
I thought it was obvious from the photo that the palms weren't located downtown. They're next to a big box store facing south and not far from a big parking lot though.
I see photos from Tournefeuille, which is further away from downtown than the airport. They're from before 2012 though. I've seen a phoenix in Blagnac in a suburban street next to the airport, but can't find it on GSV. Certainly not a common sight there contrary to trachys, I didn't know there were CIDPs in Toulouse before last year.
Looks like all those cidp's in Toulouse are up the walls of buildings getting a very good micro climate.
Let's put it this way. If Toulouse had cidp's all over the area, and they got hit with that weather, I would bet over 75% kill rate with those temps. Of course there will be some outliers up against a south facing wall getting heat from the wall, building, and probably the parking surface, etc. But most cidp out in the open in Toulouse would be killed in those temps day after day. They just aren't that hardy. If they were that hardy they would be all over the place in much colder climates like zone 8a. You can find cidp buried up against buildings like that in cold inland places in the South, but most of those places are just not hardy for cidp in the long term.
Agreed.. Oak Harbor, Port Townsend, Sequim and Victoria would be great candidates due to their overall dryness. Maybe we could import some CIDP experts from England to give it a go
You guys seem to get most of your rain in one half of the year ,then it's bone dry . but yeah,any of those locations will be better than Seattle itself .
ha ha ,we import ours from Spain - i think to survive here they have to be part established at least - or at least given a degree of protection .
We have Cidp's that are 100 - 130 years old in Torquay - it seems to be the one little spot on mainland England they have flourished ,it's only very recently (due to global warming ?? ) they can survive in other towns .
The ones in London aren't that old as far as i'm aware -the Portsmouth /Southsea palm is 20 years old .
I don't think the summer is at all relevant. It's the winters.
I just asked a horticulturalist at the Jacksonville zoo and a botanist at Auburn University in Alabama on my FB group and they said definitely phoenix palms in the southeast grow faster than in England and the cooler summer climates like San Francisco. That means they get to a larger size quicker, and also means summer heat does matter in some way.
They both said phoenix palms would grow faster in a hot summer climate, and would also re-generate defoliated leaves quicker in a hot summer climate. So summer heat does have an impact.
Going back to mature palms being more cold resistant... In the very cold winter of 1985 Florence, Italy dropped to -21C & mature Phoenix canariensis survived, though damaged. Even at the famous Villa Baccari (home to the Palm botanist Odoardo Beccari) where it dropped to -26C a mature Phoenix canariensis & Jubaea chilensis both survived...
How widespread are phoenix palms in Florence? Any streetviews you can link us to?
if i was a Cidp and you stuck me outside in 0-9c and dry i'd be a tad miserable ,stick me outside with 0-9c and rain /drizzle i'd be completely p1ssed of
when the wet mild days turn into cold wet nights in Seattle those palms will get all manner of problems
cordylines ? - you'll grow them in Siberia lol
They survived down to 0F in Las Cruces, NM but not with multiple days below freezing, and in a very dry climate. They are more hardy in dry climates for sure.
Summer heat definitely matters. Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum hystrix generally perform better in the Mid-Atlantic states than in the Pacific Northwest, even though in the Mid-Atlantic they may be subjected to more damage in some winters.
You guys seem to get most of your rain in one half of the year ,then it's bone dry . but yeah,any of those locations will be better than Seattle itself .
ha ha ,we import ours from Spain - i think to survive here they have to be part established at least - or at least given a degree of protection .
We have Cidp's that are 100 - 130 years old in Torquay - it seems to be the one little spot on mainland England they have flourished ,it's only very recently (due to global warming ?? ) they can survive in other towns .
The ones in London aren't that old as far as i'm aware -the Portsmouth /Southsea palm is 20 years old .
The reason there are not older CIDP's other than in Torquay & Tresco is because up until recent years it was assumed they could only be grown in those areas & they have only become widely available to buy in recent years too. In old gardening books it says even Trachycarpus fortunei can only be grown in the SW & the very first CIDP I bought back in the early 90's had to be purchased from a specialist nursery in London. These days you can buy them everywhere & don't forget Southsea's record low is -8C, which is actually 1C higher than Torquay, so it isn't anything to do with "global warming". If someone had planted one in Southsea 100 years ago, it would more than likely still be there now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
I just asked a horticulturalist at the Jacksonville zoo and a botanist at Auburn University in Alabama on my FB group and they said definitely phoenix palms in the southeast grow faster than in England and the cooler summer climates like San Francisco. That means they get to a larger size quicker, and also means summer heat does matter in some way.
They both said phoenix palms would grow faster in a hot summer climate, and would also re-generate defoliated leaves quicker in a hot summer climate. So summer heat does have an impact.
Warmer summers will help them to recover quicker, but it doesn't need to be hot for them to grow faster. The Southsea CIDP's grew very quickly & this was thought to be because of the fairly warm summer minimum temperatures, rather than daytime highs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
How widespread are phoenix palms in Florence? Any streetviews you can link us to?
I honestly don't know. The information I quoted was from an article published in the journal of the International Palm Society.
Summer heat definitely matters. Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum hystrix generally perform better in the Mid-Atlantic states than in the Pacific Northwest.
Summer heat matters for those species of palms, but not for Phoenix canariensis...
Summer heat matters for those species of palms, but not for Phoenix canariensis...
That's true, but in areas where P. canariensis is only marginally hardy, having a warm/hot summer would go a long way.
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but yeah,any of those locations will be better than Seattle itself .