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I think we need more climate categories. Birmingham is borderline subtropical/hot continental and Minneapolis is cold continental.
Well, the problem with any climate classification system is that, no matter how many categories you create, there will always be borders where a city could go either way. People like to complain about the fact that NYC is considered subtropical, but no matter what classification system you come up with you'll always have an NYC somewhere that just barely meets the criteria for one category while it could just as easily be another.
I guess it comes down to a difference in how people interpret the term: Many focus on the "tropical" part while others focus on the "sub". I personally believe that if snow and subfreezing days only occur a couple of times per year, it really isn't anywhere close to being truly continental. The winters need to be dominated by snow and cold in the winter months to really be continental, and Birmingham is most certainly not. To me, "hot continental" is just another way of saying "subtropical". One could just as easily rename "subarctic" to "frigid continental", but it wouldn't really change the meaning itself. In fact, sometimes I'll look at a climate chart for a city and think that it's continental, only to find that it's actually considered subarctic. Is there really any legitimate difference between a subarctic climate and a humid continental one?
In summary, what I think is that "subtropical" should refer to the warm side of temperate climates, "continental" should refer to the middle, and "subarctic" should refer to the cold side. All three types are prone to variability and weather atypical of what one would expect for that climate, but all three are overwhelmingly dominated by the type of weather one would expect for that climate, regardless of whether there are a few days that go against that expectation.
That's the thing - i hate going to sleep on such a full stomach. Bad feeling for me.
I could never sleep with a full stomach. I mean, I can do it, but my stomach will kill me - I would wake up nauseous and bloated after an a hour or so. You would think that you got food poisoning, but it's just your stomach playing cruel games with you. Horrible.
I agree 100% with your point (and you are right).....but technically the above statement is untrue - NYC is NOT considered subtropical in any climate classification:
Both the old Koppen and newer Trewartha climate classifications consider NYC "Temperate. The fact that NYC is lumped into the same C climate zone as Sydney in the old Koppen system is just as strange as lumping Seattle or London into the same climate group as Brisbane or New Orleans (which the old Koppen system does as well). The problem is that people in different parts of the world have inserted the word "subtropical" into the Koppen system....and he NEVER had that climate name in his climate classification zones.
In truth, the newer Trewartha system is the only system to split the middle latitudes into the "Temperate zone ( D= 4 to 7 months mean temp above 10 C).....and "subtropical zone (C = 8 or more months above 10 C). The "subtropical" zone in the Trewartha system fits very closely the locations in the real world that are subtropical (long, hot summers, short, semi-mild winters). This includes the United States as well: Subtropical climates (Cf) are confined to the deep southern states north up the East Coast to southern North Carolina...several hundred miles from NYC near 40 latitude:
There is no such thing as a "subtropical" climate zone in the Koppen system....only a broad C temperate climate zone.
That map actually shows Cf climates all the way up to the NC/VA border not just southern NC. Raleigh has 9 months with mean temps over 50 so we meet that requirement. Don't get why people say Trewartha only brings subtropical climates to southern NC, is there another criteria I am missing that eliminates Raleigh?
I agree 100% with your point (and you are right).....but technically the above statement is untrue - NYC is NOT considered subtropical in any climate classification:
Both the old Koppen and newer Trewartha climate classifications consider NYC "Temperate. The fact that NYC is lumped into the same C climate zone as Sydney in the old Koppen system is just as strange as lumping Seattle or London into the same climate group as Brisbane or New Orleans (which the old Koppen system does as well). The problem is that people in different parts of the world have inserted the word "subtropical" into the Koppen system....and he NEVER had that climate name in his climate classification zones.
In truth, the newer Trewartha system is the only system to split the middle latitudes into the "Temperate zone ( D= 4 to 7 months mean temp above 10 C).....and "subtropical zone (C = 8 or more months above 10 C). The "subtropical" zone in the Trewartha system fits very closely the locations in the real world that are subtropical (long, hot summers, short, semi-mild winters). This includes the United States as well: Subtropical climates (Cf) are confined to the deep southern states north up the East Coast to southern North Carolina...several hundred miles from NYC near 40 latitude:
There is no such thing as a "subtropical" climate zone in the Koppen system....only a broad C temperate climate zone.
I'll leave the "subtropical" talk out of it, as that's highly debatable, but NYC does fall within Köppen's "C" definition, as its coldest month, January, has a mean greater than both -3°C, the original definition, and the more commonly used 0°C definition. NYC falls shy of Trewartha's "C" classification, which is 8 or more months with a mean greater than 10°C, by a fraction of a degree. It's a borderline situation in both cases.
Jan - 0.7°C
Feb - 2.1°C
Mar - 5.8°C
Apr - 11.7°C (month 1)
May - 17.1°C (month 2)
Jun - 22.4°C (month 3)
July - 25.4°C (month 4)
Aug - 24.8°C (month 5)
Sep - 20.8°C (month 6)
Oct - 14.7°C (month 7)
Nov - 9.2°C (almost month 8)
Dec - 3.6°C
As muslim12 pointed out above, climate maps aren't always accurate, they can vary wildly from source to source. I've seen maps where only the Deep South is considered "C", and I've seen maps that have "C" reaching southern Connecticut.
I think the worst part is that NYC considered the same climate type as Sydney or Montevideo. That's like trying to equate a Ford Pinto with a Ferrari
They're only the same classification, not the same climate. Who seriously expects climates within the same classification to be the same? - even Sydney Montevideo aren't the same climate
On an unhappy note -don't know why the Batumi/DC thread was closed down? So what if people want to rehash old debates? -this is a weather forum after all.
Last edited by Joe90; 11-27-2016 at 11:52 AM..
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The problem is that people in different parts of the world have inserted the word "subtropical" into the Koppen system....and he NEVER had that climate name in his climate classification zones.