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Old 06-17-2017, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Foreignorland 58 N, 17 E.
5,601 posts, read 3,506,777 times
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The stupid-o-meter is very high for people who actually like Corbyn rather than seeing him as the lesser of two evils because always voted Labour or whatever

Corbyn's the most unlikeable douche I've ever seen in politics and he's got less charisma than friggin' Arsène Wenger to top it off!

 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,112 posts, read 29,589,687 times
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Yeah, but then there's May, lol.

This says it all:



Honestly, the Tories are becoming the nasty party again in a lot of people's eyes. They need to tread carefully.
 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:30 PM
 
6,112 posts, read 3,925,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
According to latest opinion polls, she is much less popular than Jeremy Corybn. Considering his net approval rating was around -40 prior to the election being called, that's a pretty incredible feat.

What happened was pretty simple though - the more people saw May, the less they liked her, while the opposite was true for Corybn. It's basically the difference between someone who appears cold and emotionless, and someone who doesn't, regardless of their politics. Her response to the recent tragedy in London hasn't really done her any favours either.

She'll be gone soon anyway though I suspect. She has become as unpopular as Tony Blair in just a few months. The Tories would be crazy not to replace her.
That's because she's an awful campaigner with a robotic personality. Corbyn's obviously more likable and his manifesto was nicer, the problem is that it was affordable and the people tasked to deliver on it were incompetent extremists.
 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,112 posts, read 29,589,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razza94 View Post
That's because she's an awful campaigner with a robotic personality. Corbyn's obviously more likable and his manifesto was nicer, the problem is that it was affordable and the people tasked to deliver on it were incompetent extremists.
Yes. I suppose the question is whether any potential replacements will be able to undo the damage she has done. Her staying is a boon to Labour but I actually want her to go because I think she is genuinely bad for this country.
 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:36 PM
 
6,112 posts, read 3,925,140 times
Reputation: 2243
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
Yes. I suppose the question is whether any potential replacements will be able to undo the damage she has done. Her staying is a boon to Labour but I actually want her to go because I think she is genuinely bad for this country.
The longer she can hold off an election, the better. In Westminster there's now the perception that she's a formidable politician, but an awful campaigner.
 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Foreignorland 58 N, 17 E.
5,601 posts, read 3,506,777 times
Reputation: 1006
It's not that hard to beat Corbyn as long as you turn up for the election lol...

Vast majority of current Tory voters absolutely hate the man. He's got very low crossover appeal besides the progressive base. I think we're talking of 85-90 % of 2017 Tory voters who wouldn't for Corbyn no matter what. In other words, any Tory leader can dig far deeper into Labour's voter base with Corbyn as leader than vice versa. Many people in the rural north voted Labour without even liking Corbyn because May did such a crap job only. There are so many of those seats there for the taking for the Tories next time regardless of how many dumb Oxbridge students turn out.

Bishop Auckland
Barrow-in-Furness
Newcastle-under-Lyme
Stockton South
Crewe and Nantwich

Etc. No chance for Labour under the commie douche in places like that under a normal Tory leader.
 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:39 PM
 
6,112 posts, read 3,925,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lommaren View Post
It's not that hard to beat Corbyn as long as you turn up for the election lol...

Vast majority of current Tory voters absolutely hate the man. He's got very low crossover appeal besides the progressive base. In other words, any Tory leader can dig far deeper into Labour's voter base with Corbyn as leader than vice versa. Many people in the rural north voted Labour without even liking Corbyn because May did such a crap job only. There are so many of those seats there for the taking for the Tories next time regardless of how many dumb Oxbridge students turn out.
May ran the crappiest campaign anyone has ever seen. Ever.

With a more moderate leader, like David Miliband, Labour would have won by a landslide.
 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,112 posts, read 29,589,687 times
Reputation: 8819
Quote:
Originally Posted by lommaren View Post
It's not that hard to beat Corbyn as long as you turn up for the election lol...

Vast majority of current Tory voters absolutely hate the man. He's got very low crossover appeal besides the progressive base. In other words, any Tory leader can dig far deeper into Labour's voter base with Corbyn as leader than vice versa. Many people in the rural north voted Labour without even liking Corbyn because May did such a crap job only. There are so many of those seats there for the taking for the Tories next time regardless of how many dumb Oxbridge students turn out.
I think that is wishful thinking on your part to be honest. It's not just May that has been damaged but the Conservative Party brand full stop - Cameron went to great lengths to detoxify the Tories, but I think May is slowly reversing that by making them repellent in the eyes of much of the electorate. People talked about Labour not knowing what they stand for - but that question now seems appropriate for the Tories as well.

And it's worth pointing out that Labour won every age group under 50, and won every 'employment' group bar retirees. Their appeal is currently more far-reaching than just students. If anything, the Tories are now the party for retirees, with working-age people largely shunning them. They're just lucky that the old buggers turn out in much larger numbers.

I also think that, after 7 years of austerity, people are getting rather tired of it. The electorate will only tolerate it for so long before saying 'no thanks'.

I think the Tories will need to do more than just replace their leader and say 'We will definitely win now'. Complacency killed May, and it could kill her successor as well.
 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Foreignorland 58 N, 17 E.
5,601 posts, read 3,506,777 times
Reputation: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
I think that is wishful thinking on your part to be honest. It's not just May that has been damaged but the Conservative Party brand full stop. People talked about Labour not knowing what they stand for - but that question now seems appropriate for the Tories as well.
Now you've gone deep into la-la land here. Any political party gets a boost under a new leader, especially one in government. Look at how even Gordon Brown spiked his first week in 2007 and then failed to hold an election and then came the economic debacles which pushed him beneath 25 % in polls. That was when the LibDems were strong so that's clearly not going to happen to any Tory leader at the present time.

The Tories just have to play the economy card and really hammer him on his irresponsible spending plans and explain the true cost of marxist economic policies and then it's game over for Corbyn on the countryside. Besides, there's not going to be an election before 2020 anyway. The Tories are not stupid.

But seriously dunno. What exactly is good with Corbyn and his bankrupcy-inducing policies? I can't find none. The state runs the rail in this country and nothing works. The government can't run diddly squat and should merely act as a regulator of private actors, else the economy will always collapse.

Austerity? Tony Blair and Gordon Brown made the bed and now you have to sleep in it. Running to Santa Claus aka Corbyn is like a heroinist running to the dealer.
 
Old 06-17-2017, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,112 posts, read 29,589,687 times
Reputation: 8819
Quote:
Originally Posted by lommaren View Post
Now you've gone deep into la-la land here. Any political party gets a boost under a new leader, especially one in government. Look at how even Gordon Brown spiked his first week in 2007 and then failed to hold an election and then came the economic debacles which pushed him beneath 25 % in polls. That was when the LibDems were strong so that's clearly not going to happen to any Tory leader at the present time.

The Tories just have to play the economy card and really hammer him on his irresponsible spending plans and explain the true cost of marxist economic policies and then it's game over for Corbyn on the countryside. Besides, there's not going to be an election before 2020 anyway. The Tories are not stupid.

But seriously dunno. What exactly is good with Corbyn and his bankrupcy-inducing policies? I can't find none. The state runs the rail in this country and nothing works. The government can't run diddly squat and should merely act as a regulator of private actors, else the economy will always collapse.
That kind of fear tactic doesn't work anymore. This is what you are failing to understand. People aren't going to vote for the Tories out of fear of Corbyn because people no longer fear him or the prospect of him as Prime Minister. It's just not going to work.

If the Tories want to win, and by win I mean actually form a majority, then they need to give the electorate a reason to vote for them. Simply saying 'Vote for us because we're not them' won't cut it. Not anymore. People respond better to positive messages, not negative ones. This is where Labour succeeded - they gave a positive vision for the country. You can certainly call it idealistic or unaffordable or whatever else, but it's the kind of message that resonates with a lot of people. The Tories spent too much time focusing on why they shouldn't vote Labour rather than why they should vote for them (you know, beyond banal catchphrases like 'strong and stable').

It's worth bearing in mind that the Tories have won one majority in the past 25 years, and they lost it pretty quickly. It's been a little over 30 years since the last Tory landslide. They're definitely not doing something right.

As for national railways - I don't know what it's like in Sweden, only that railways in countries like France and Germany are evidently much better than they are here. It's not a vote-winner for me, because I will vote Labour with or without such policies.
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