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Look at this: One of them is subarctic and the other is humid continental. At a face value this seems absurd that Happy Valley-Goose Bay in Labrador is a non-subarctic climate, whereas Umeå in Sweden is one.
Happy Valley-Goose Bay warmest month and coldest month:
20.9/10.0 & -12.7/-22.5
Ignore that Umeå has slightly newer averages (in particular since summer warming has been barely happening in Umeå) and just focus on the numbers. I'm not questioning the 10 C requirement for the fourth warmest month, but shouldn't there be like an annual mean requirement for a climate not to be subarctic? Like a 3 C yearly mean or something? Pitting these climates against each other and HV-GB becoming the milder classification thanks to a 10.0/9.9 September difference... just shows how wrong things can go in my opinion.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lommaren
Look at this: One of them is subarctic and the other is humid continental. At a face value this seems absurd that Happy Valley-Goose Bay in Labrador is a non-subarctic climate, whereas Umeå in Sweden is one.
Happy Valley-Goose Bay warmest month and coldest month:
20.9/10.0 & -12.7/-22.5
Ignore that Umeå has slightly newer averages (in particular since summer warming has been barely happening in Umeå) and just focus on the numbers. I'm not questioning the 10 C requirement for the fourth warmest month, but shouldn't there be like an annual mean requirement for a climate not to be subarctic? Like a 3 C yearly mean or something? Pitting these climates against each other and HV-GB becoming the milder classification thanks to a 10.0/9.9 September difference... just shows how wrong things can go in my opinion.
Thoughts?
Umea is Continenal in my climate system (see my thread Ultimate Climate Classification System). They come out to Dhd (Humid Continental Mild Summer)
I'm guessing that the warmer highs in Happy Valley-Goose Bay (worst name for a city so far, Lol) "save" it from being a completely subarctic climate. Now if the winter highs were around -20C or 30C then maybe they'd categorize it as a full subarctic climate. Umea still has cool summers. They don't make up for the winters, hence its subarctic categorization.
I'm guessing that the warmer highs in Happy Valley-Goose Bay (worst name for a city so far, Lol) "save" it from being a completely subarctic climate. Now if the winter highs were around -20C or 30C then maybe they'd categorize it as a full subarctic climate. Umea still has cool summers. They don't make up for the winters, hence its subarctic categorization.
Nah it is because September meets 10 C, something only possible on lower latitudes that have naughty annual ranges. Similar things also happens in Eastern Russia by the Pacific as well. A seasonal lag that keeps August relatively warm (the only month warmer than Umeå). On average Umeå is more than 3 C milder in terms of the full year. That is why I would want a minimum yearly mean for a Dfb climate...
- Very short (unscientific) data set from Umeå
- You have to put the definition somewhere
- Köppen is not the ultimate authority or his definitions set in stone
- You don't "become" continental immediately when you hit 10.0C in the 4th month or vice versa.
- You're splitting hairs
- If it makes you feel better round it up. 9.5 -> 10
And so on... Can't bother to go all over this again.
I find it a little odd instinctively that the three-month requirement counts whole months instead of days. I mean, Umeå has (well) over 90 days but because they aren't distributed evenly over three whole months it doesn't count. A city with the exact same climate can thus get a different classification purely because of a larger or lesser seasonal delay. (See Holmön, an island right off the coast of Umeå https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmöarna)
I find it a little odd instinctively that the three-month requirement counts whole months instead of days. I mean, Umeå has (well) over 90 days but because they aren't distributed evenly over three whole months it doesn't count. A city with the exact same climate can thus get a different classification purely because of a larger or lesser seasonal delay. (See Holmön, an island right off the coast of Umeå https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmöarna)
I think this is only for simplicity. After all, it's a classification Köppen developed 100 years ago.
Another example is Tampere. It has 3 months above 10C so it's technically subarctic, but practically 5 months at 10C.
The bottom line is that I'm NOT trying to make a case for a climate with below 10 C Mays or Septembers into a continental climate, I'm trying to establish a minimum annual temp requirement for being such, since I think Happy Valley-Goose Bay impossibly can't be a humid continental climate with a yearly mean of 0 C.
Regardless, Umeå is in my opinion a subarctic climate, in particular since nights cool off earlier than 'simple means' would suggest.
a category in between dfb and dfc would be useful eg. semi-subarctic (more than 3, but less than 5 months with an average above 10C) many swedish northern coastal climates would fit that category, as would many in new foundland and nova scotia.
a category in between dfb and dfc would be useful eg. semi-subarctic (more than 3, but less than 5 months with an average above 10C) many swedish northern coastal climates would fit that category, as would many in new foundland and nova scotia.
Perhaps a Dfc+ category:
* Coldest month above -10C
* Less than four months above 10C
* Warmest month above 15C
Finds some inspiration in Trewartha as well with the -10C threshold for coldest month!
The entire coastal basin around from Umeå to Vaasa would fit the bill perfectly.
Ultimately I feel that if four months are above 10C it should be Dfb, but with a 3C threshold for annual mean. Below 3C the growing season is hopelessly short.
Oulu for example averages 2.6 C. Granted it doesn't meet Dfb, but in spite of it being maritime and all, the October average low is 0.8 C.
As it is, not many Dfb climates would fall off with a 3C threshold - it would just clean out those who clearly don't present enough summer heat in combination with frigid winters. The problem with Happy Valley-Goose Bay is that is hardly warm even in summer.
Fort McMurray with an annual mean of 1.0 C would again firmly be within the subarctic range that is more representative to its climate.
The problem I've found would be Winnipeg that would seem like a textbook Dfb that would fall right on the 3C line in spite of having five months above 10 C. Perhaps it could only be applied to places with just four months above 10C?
That would leave the Rural Municipality of Gimli somewhat north of Winnipeg still as Dfb.
* Coldest month below 0C/-3C (depends on taste)
* Four months above 10C.
* Five months above 10C if yearly mean is below 3C.
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