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The much lower Ouachita mountains in se oklahoma are around 2500 above sea level yet high enough to generate relatively high annual rainfall amounts compared to locations in north tx as for example or western oklahima.
You are ignoring the predominate se winds from the gulf that manage to keep most cold fronts north of houston for example. While noy as string as the jet stream it's a dominate weather impact in houston as any golfer knows.
Yes, this is true, the Gulf and Atlantic coast cities often see "return flows" after a cold front; often times, a clear, sunny day will end up with the skies covered in cirrus clouds, helping to minimize heat loss at night, and keep minimums up.
See also the "thermal belt" area of western North Carolina, where altitude, topography, and weather patterns combine for a limited area of milder temperatures and a longer growing season. Tryon, NC is located in one such belt.
Along with relative minimums in snowfall amounts due to precipitation reduction and holding onto above freezing temps longer during an event.
You are ignoring the predominate se winds from the gulf that manage to keep most cold fronts north of houston for example. While noy as string as the jet stream it's a dominate weather impact in houston as any golfer knows.
I was gonna say, it's probably not as strong as any whirling polar vortex that our frozen friends in Canada send us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanZeBar
The mountains my help, but ultimately, it seems more like a simple case of proximity to the ocean; the closer to the sea/more modified, the warmer the record lows. The records also follow the shape of the coast; there is no Gulf of Mexico shoreline north of 30N in Texas, while the Atlantic coast runs past that latitude, causing the water moderated areas of Texas to be lower in latitude than the Atlantic areas.
You also have to account for frequency; Waco and Charlotte may both have the same record low (-5F), but that temp occurred thrice in Charlotte, vs once in Waco.
But, in the end, they all are similar; the differences aren't that drastic. When the climate zones are similar, things like record lows become a matter of random chance; Los Angeles downtown has a warmer record low (28F) than LAX (27F), even though LAX is closer to the Pacific, and both locations have higher record lows than San Diego (25F), despite being further north.
I always thought that once you're several miles (Or a little more) from the ocean, that any influence the ocean would have on land would be gone. I guess what I'm really trying to get at is while Columbia, with it being just a bit over 100 miles inland, therefore should see no coastal influence on temperatures. Then, these inland cities in Texas SHOULD have warmer overall lows than inland cities several hundred miles north in the SE like Columbia. Which is why I think mountains play a much bigger role than a cities proximity to the ocean.
With the sun angle and length of days in the winter, there's no reason why Middle Texas should be just as cold as the southeast in overall lows; yet, its not and it's mostly because of the Appalachian mountains.
I did account for frequency and sure, some place like Waco will be overall warmer than a place like Charlotte. Their overall lows at that latitude is what's intriguing and it has to do with the Appalachians.
I always thought that once you're several miles (Or a little more) from the ocean, that any influence the ocean would have on land would be gone. I guess what I'm really trying to get at is while Columbia, with it being just a bit over 100 miles inland, therefore should see no coastal influence on temperatures. Then, these inland cities in Texas SHOULD have warmer overall lows than inland cities several hundred miles north in the SE like Columbia. Which is why I think mountains play a much bigger role than a cities proximity to the ocean.
Every bit of distance counts when it comes to the ocean. If Columbia is 100 miles inland, and Dallas is nearly 300 miles inland, than Columbia will exhibit that much more ocean moderation than Dallas.
The moderating water body for Texas is lower in latitude than the water body for the inland Atlantic SE cities; therefore, the moderated Texas climates occur at lower latitudes. It's as simple as that; the mountains play a role in mitigating cold, just not as much as ocean proximity I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithgn
With the sun angle and length of days in the winter, there's no reason why Middle Texas should be just as cold as the southeast in overall lows; yet, its not and it's mostly because of the Appalachian mountains.
I did account for frequency and sure, some place like Waco will be overall warmer than a place like Charlotte. Their overall lows at that latitude is what's intriguing and it has to do with the Appalachians.
Well, that is the point; the frequency of occurrence of the low makes all the difference. If Waco saw -5F only once, while Charlotte saw that number three times, then it would mean that Waco is less cold compared to the inland SE; such low temperatures are happening more often in Charlotte. Then again, it may be more wise to compare urban city to urban city; Dallas is further north than Waco, yet has a record low of only -3F.
Sun angle and long day length doesn't mean much when we are talking about lows (which happen at night, when the sun is down).
Every bit of distance counts when it comes to the ocean. If Columbia is 100 miles inland, and Dallas is nearly 300 miles inland, than Columbia will exhibit that much more ocean moderation than Dallas.
Well, that is the point; the frequency of occurrence of the low makes all the difference. If Waco saw -5F only once, while Charlotte saw that number three times, then it would mean that Waco is less cold compared to the inland SE; such low temperatures are happening more often in Charlotte. Then again, it may be more wise to compare urban city to urban city; Dallas is further north than Waco, yet has a record low of only -3F.
Sun angle and long day length doesn't mean much when we are talking about lows (which happen at night, when the sun is down).
I use to think that exact same thing but I've seen very little evidence in support of it. I mean, if you're inland, then you're inland. But I hope you're right because that'd be pretty cool. In this case, both are inland, but one of the areas (The SE) has a mountain range that helps mitigate the cold.
Overall, yes areas like Austin are overall warmer than Columbia. But I'm just pointing out that despite Austin being so much consistently warmer than Columbia, it's crazy that Austin has the same overall low as Columbia. It's interesting.
You're right, sun angle doesn't directly effect night time temperatures, but if you have a longer day time at 30 degrees north compared to 35 degrees north, then that might be a huge difference as far as the sun heating up the soil during the day. If you have a shorter night, then thats less time for cooling in the air, soil and drops in overall temperatures.
See also the "thermal belt" area of western North Carolina, where altitude, topography, and weather patterns combine for a limited area of milder temperatures and a longer growing season. Tryon, NC is located in one such belt.
Yep, that's why Spartanburg SC despite being at 900 feet in elevation and further north than Atlanta and only a bit further south than charlotte manages to be very warm. Warmer than both cities and almost as warm as Columbia SC in January by average high. Same applies to Tryon NC. Then there is Greenville SC which is right next to Spartanburg yet it is a whole 3 degrees colder in January.
I was gonna say, it's probably not as strong as any whirling polar vortex that our frozen friends in Canada send us.
I always thought that once you're several miles (Or a little more) from the ocean, that any influence the ocean would have on land would be gone. I guess what I'm really trying to get at is while Columbia, with it being just a bit over 100 miles inland, therefore should see no coastal influence on temperatures. Then, these inland cities in Texas SHOULD have warmer overall lows than inland cities several hundred miles north in the SE like Columbia. Which is why I think mountains play a much bigger role than a cities proximity to the ocean.
With the sun angle and length of days in the winter, there's no reason why Middle Texas should be just as cold as the southeast in overall lows; yet, its not and it's mostly because of the Appalachian mountains.
I did account for frequency and sure, some place like Waco will be overall warmer than a place like Charlotte. Their overall lows at that latitude is what's intriguing and it has to do with the Appalachians.
Also has to do more with the rockies which drive the Jetstream northward. The Jetstream has to go further south some where and that some where happens to be the Midwest. Had the rockies not been there its position would be very different and this will allow the east coast to be milder. The rockies are also why northern Europe is so warm as the jet stream makes a ridge and heads north after the Appalachian which seem to actually drive the jet stream a bit further south into Alabama before it heads north.
Notice how the rockies drive the jet stream northwards before it plunges south, then it seems as if the Appalachians nudge it even further south over Alabama where it reaches its lowest point before heading north. If you look at a hardiness one map you will notice that area is lower latitude for latitude in the us.
look at the zone 8b line and see how it follows that jet stream. This is also why the further east you are the milder the lows.
I use to think that exact same thing but I've seen very little evidence in support of it. I mean, if you're inland, then you're inland. But I hope you're right because that'd be pretty cool. In this case, both are inland, but one of the areas (The SE) has a mountain range that helps mitigate the cold.
And yet not enough to write home about, as shown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithgn
Overall, yes areas like Austin are overall warmer than Columbia. But I'm just pointing out that despite Austin being so much consistently warmer than Columbia, it's crazy that Austin has the same overall low as Columbia. It's interesting.
Consider also that Columbia has Atlantic Ocean due south of it (thanks to the curve of the East Coast), whereas Austin only has ocean to the east. Thus, Columbia has an easier chance of seeing the "return flow" of moisture and mildness that helps moderation compared to Austin.
Then again, Columbia has seen sub-zero temps more recently than Austin has (in the 1980s).
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithgn
You're right, sun angle doesn't directly effect night time temperatures, but if you have a longer day time at 30 degrees north compared to 35 degrees north, then that might be a huge difference as far as the sun heating up the soil during the day. If you have a shorter night, then thats less time for cooling in the air, soil and drops in overall temperatures.
The difference in day length in Austin vs Columbia is a grand total of ... 15 mins, practically irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Consider also that Columbia has Atlantic Ocean due south of it (thanks to the curve of the East Coast), whereas Austin only has ocean to the east. Thus, Columbia has an easier chance of seeing the "return flow" of moisture and mildness that helps moderation compared to Austin.
Then again, Columbia has seen sub-zero temps more recently than Austin has (in the 1980s).
The difference in day length in Austin vs Columbia is a grand total of ... 15 mins, practically irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
It's not the app. mountains that mitigate cold but rather the jet stream positioning. Places further west in the USA are more anomalously cold for there latitude than there eastern counterparts. That's no secret.
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