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2200 sun hours a year is not bad at all. How much sunshine does a Washingtonia need?
What Washingtonia don't need, is cool, grey and damp winters- to be healthy in marginal climates, they need warm sun that warms the ground even at the coldest time of year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220
4+ months 18°C+ is my cutoff for heat for a subtropical climate, which means one month in Spring or Fall being 18°C+
Which means Washingtonia isn't a good subtropical indicator, if it doesn't need it to be that warm -not that I think a single species signifies a subtropical climate.
Temperate climates should have winter month means of like 0.1C to 10C on my opinion. So like New York City or Munich (1981 to 2010 data) to like an area between Houston and Dallas or something.
I feel like people get so hung up on the subtropical/continental conundrum because they fail to accept that there's a spectrum of continental climates and a spectrum of subtropical climates. New York is on the border between continental and subtropical. If you go further south, say Washington DC, you're firmly in subtropical territory, at least the cooler side of subtropical. By the time you reach Florida you're into warm subtropical, and in Miami you're on the border of tropical.
To me these are broad categories, very broad.
To me the problem is not the broadness of Köppen's Cfa and Cfb categories, but that they have hardly any relationship to biomes. They completely fail to distinguish between deciduous woodland (colder winter) climates and evergreen forest (warmer winter) climates. If they did, I think they would group the cooler winter climates together (eg New York with London) and the warmer winter climates in a different grouping (eg New Orleans with Auckland).
To me the problem is not the broadness of Köppen's Cfa and Cfb categories, but that they have hardly any relationship to biomes. They completely fail to distinguish between deciduous woodland (colder winter) climates and evergreen forest (warmer winter) climates. If they did, I think they would group the cooler winter climates together (eg New York with London) and the warmer winter climates in a different grouping (eg New Orleans with Auckland).
Yes. That is the problem with Koppen.
Subtropical imo is not quite tropical but still mild ...places where snow is rare, you rarely
ever need to wear a winter jacket or mitts....places like Buenos Aires...Sydney....Orlando...
Hong Kong....Auckland...etc...
But not...New York City...Philadelphia...DC....those places should be in another climate
category...they are between subtropical and continental.......temperate...semi continental.
What Washingtonia don't need, is cool, grey and damp winters- to be healthy in marginal climates, they need warm sun that warms the ground even at the coldest time of year.
So how much sunshine is required in the 3 winter months then? Obviously Victoria doesn't make the grade...
So how much sunshine is required in the 3 winter months then? Obviously Victoria doesn't make the grade...
I don't think it's a matter of sunshine by itself, ground conditions need to be warm and dry for most of the time -Washingtonia, particularly filifera, aren't tolerant of damp and cool conditions, being prone to rot
London Heathrow airport has a coldest month of 5.2C and an annual mean of 11.3C. I've never seen a Washingtonia in England, though there are some sub-adult (stating to form a short trunk,) Phoenix canariensis near LHR. In any case I'd place London on the cool to cold winter side of the divide, as the biome is definitely one that shows winter hibernation.
While I can see the usefulness of using a single indicator plant like Washingtonia (or coconut palm for tropical and almost tropical climates), I think a real classification system would use a broader biome indicator such as the boundary between mainly deciduous broadleaf forests where growth largely stops over winter and mainly broadleaf evergreen forests where there is more year round activity.
This would also be useful to partition the Köppen Cfb climates between the cool-cold winter types like London and the mild-warmer winter types like Auckland.
I'm not sure that they need partitioning though -Auckland and London both fit the Cfb description well, and variation would be expected in any climate classification. Although I do agree the the two cities have very different biomes due to climate
Classification describes "type" of climate, rather than actual climate
I don't think it's a matter of sunshine by itself, ground conditions need to be warm and dry for most of the time -Washingtonia, particularly filifera, aren't tolerant of damp and cool conditions, being prone to rot
So what are the minimum sunshine, temperature and rain conditions in the winter then that create a suitable environment for Washingtonias that will keep ground conditions warm and dry most of the time? I would like to try and recreate it if I can.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78
So what are the minimum sunshine, temperature and rain conditions in the winter then that create a suitable environment for Washingtonias that will keep ground conditions warm and dry most of the time? I would like to try and recreate it if I can.
Keep in mind London isn't very wet by oceanic standards, they only average about 600 mm of rain per year
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