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View Poll Results: Which one is more subtropical
Wellington, NZ 3 11.54%
Atlanta, GA 21 80.77%
Both in their way 2 7.69%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-23-2024, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro (Cobb County)
3,218 posts, read 2,256,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
Don’t think these two climates are comparable. Wellington to Sam Francisco or Atlanta to Buenos Aires would be a better comparison.
I don't think there are any good matches for Atlanta's climate in the Southern Hemisphere, although given it has more of a true summer Buenos Aires is a better fit than Wellington. There is a lack of landmasses in the upper middle latitudes on that side of the world, to help result in continental climates with a wide seasonal temperature variation.

Parts of China and elsewhere in eastern Asia are a bit more aligned with the Southeast US climate as they also have significant precipitation with hot, humid summers and moderately cold winters. Plants which are native to that region can grow very well in Atlanta.
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Old 04-23-2024, 09:51 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
444 posts, read 127,336 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesja View Post
…Why do you just lie? New Zealand is listed as having around 2,300 species of vascular plant, in comparison to Georgia, which is typically sourced as having between 3,600 to 4,100 species.
Hard to make a direct comparison. NZ has approx 2900 species of vascular plants, and 8500 plant species overall.

Georgia figures are a bit more vague and don't include all plant species, and many sites list the 3600+ species as including fauna, which confuses things.

NZ has approx 230 native trees species, nearly all endemic, while Georgia has around 250 of which only a few are endemic... Georgia has more tree species because it ispartof a hugeland mass, nothing more.






Quote:
So you’re se selectively attending to any dormancy at all?

The environment or Denmark is not at all like Georgia’s
More so than NZ's imo. NZ has evolved from the Gondwana/Australia/ Pacific/ SE Asia lineage, While Georgia and Denmark share a northern deciduous lineage .
I
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Old 04-23-2024, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
217 posts, read 65,005 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandshark View Post
.. Georgia has more tree species because it is part of a huge land mass, nothing more.
This is certainly a factor; USA has the land connection with Canada and Mexico so there is easy spread of species over millions of years.
New Zealand has a high level of endemic biodiversity.
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Old 04-24-2024, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
5,753 posts, read 3,570,425 times
Reputation: 2668
Delete. Wrong thread.

Last edited by Ed's Mountain; 04-24-2024 at 08:47 AM.. Reason: Wrong thread
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Old 04-24-2024, 02:09 PM
 
52 posts, read 11,784 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas75 View Post
I don't think there are any good matches for Atlanta's climate in the Southern Hemisphere, although given it has more of a true summer Buenos Aires is a better fit than Wellington. There is a lack of landmasses in the upper middle latitudes on that side of the world, to help result in continental climates with a wide seasonal temperature variation.

Parts of China and elsewhere in eastern Asia are a bit more aligned with the Southeast US climate as they also have significant precipitation with hot, humid summers and moderately cold winters. Plants which are native to that region can grow very well in Atlanta.
“Cold” belongs nowhere in the description of Atlanta. NYC’s winters are “moderately cold”. Atlanta is most comparable to somewhere like Nanchang.

Buenos Aires isn’t as far off as you suggest, though…

Last edited by jamesja; 04-24-2024 at 02:28 PM..
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Old 04-24-2024, 02:22 PM
 
52 posts, read 11,784 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandshark View Post
Hard to make a direct comparison. NZ has approx 2900 species of vascular plants, and 8500 plant species overall.
It’s not that hard.

Also, why are you lying? NO SOURCE echoes such a number:

https://learnz.org.nz/bioblitz191/bg...nowhere%20else.

Quote:
”-range of plant species than temperate countries. This rule holds for temperate New Zealand, which has only 2,500 native plant species. Most grow nowhere else. Included are 185 grasses, 93 hebe species and 20 conifers. Some 2,000 lichens and 500 mosses have also been named”.
Quote:
Georgia figures are a bit more vague and don't include all plant species, and many sites list the 3600+ species as including fauna, which confuses things.
NO calculation of floristic diversity in Georgia includes fauna. Your argumentation is getting super bizarre:

Quote:
”Georgia is the largest state east of the Mississippi and one of the most diverse when it comes to plant species – nearly 4,000 native plant species grow in our forests, grasslands, beaches and floodplains”.
Quote:
NZ has approx 230 native trees species, nearly all endemic, while Georgia has around 250 of which only a few are endemic... Georgia has more tree species because it ispartof a hugeland mass, nothing more.
…the fact that Georgia is part of a landmass has no bearing on its floristic diversity. Endemism would logically be more prominent on an island than in a random state that’s a part of a landmass, that has no bearing on the subtropical climate/ecology discussion

Quote:
More so than NZ's imo. NZ has evolved from the Gondwana/Australia/ Pacific/ SE Asia lineage, While Georgia and Denmark share a northern deciduous lineage .
I
Uh, no.

1) Atlanta’s vegetation is adapted to the North American temperate zone, and the subtropical zone of the American South and Caribbean. Its ecological traits reflect a “warm temperate moist forest” zone, close to the subtropical Holdridge zone, whereas Denmark’s reflect a “cold temperate moist forest” zone.

2) “Northern deciduous” means something different on each continent. The temperate vegetation in the US reflects a mixture of endemic species, species that trace their origins to East Asia, with some European and South American evolutions and introductions.

Last edited by jamesja; 04-24-2024 at 02:34 PM..
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Old 04-24-2024, 04:31 PM
 
Location: St. Pete Beach, FL
170 posts, read 44,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtropical-is-temperate3 View Post
My complicated way of humid subtropical and other temperates:

coldest month -3°C-18°C/26.6-64.4°F, at least 1 month averaging 10°C/50°F or above, f humid(wet year round, or no pronounced dry season, or simply when it is not s or w, a’ hot summer(at least one month averaging 22°C/71.6°For above.

People mostly complain on colder edge, not accepting cities like NYC, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
, Boston, Columbus, etc., so I made 26.6-45.5°F average coldest month to be pre-continental side of temperate climate, and 45.5-64.4°F pre-tropical. So example Orlando is pre-tropical humid-subtropical, NYC pre-continental humid-subtropical.

I even made it more detailed(but remember after all it is just a single climate being break down to deeper meaning.

26.6-32°F average coldest month, it is part of the pre-continental, but a more blurred borderline to real continental.Example city in Cfa categor, Pittsburgh average 27.5°F coldest month.

32-36.05°F average coldest month(26.6-36.05°F is the true pre-continental) is a pre-continental climate without borderline issues but influence from the continent climates are obvious. Example of city Philadelphia average 33.7°F coldest month.

36.05-45.5°C coldest month average, is the pre-continental climate that feels pure in its temperate nature but leaning more towards continental that tropical. Example city Cfa city Nashville.

36.05-54.95°F average coldest month is the temperate climate, in this case the humid-subtropical climate without borderline issue, in other words pure one. It is the balanced area between continental boundary and tropical boundary, it takes half the way of each of the pre-continental and pre-tropical types.Example cities: Nashville, Atlanta, DC,Birmingham, Tallahassee, Jacksonville and more.

45.5-64.4°F pre-tropical(54.95°F-64.4°F is the most outstanding pre-continental)

45.5-54.95°F is the pre-tropical start line, tropical characteristics start to be pronounced, but only in a smaller level. Example Cfa city, Mobile, AL.

Average coldest month 54.95-59°F is the pre-tropical that is in around middle line, many times even mistaken or thought by some to be tropical already. Example city, Ocala, FL.

59-64.4°F average coldest month is where the line of tropical and temperate becomes blurred, this climate is so similar to tropical that it is very often though to be. Areas with this subtype can grow many tropical fruit and vegetation but are not yet tropical. Orlando, Tampa, and many Floridian cities, some southern Texas cities fit this description.

Average 64.4°F average coldest month or more, finally tropical! 26.6°C average coldest month or below, continental it is.
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Old 04-24-2024, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Augusta, Ga
408 posts, read 263,558 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandshark View Post
More so than NZ's imo. NZ has evolved from the Gondwana/Australia/ Pacific/ SE Asia lineage, While Georgia and Denmark share a northern deciduous lineage .
I
You continue to prove how delusional you are, Georgia alone has more palm species than New Zealand, it has
several bromeliad species.

Denmark has freakin Norway spruces, a boreal like tree, you are REALLY reaching here, that's like saying India and Norway share "common" lineage because they both have some deciduous flora, you are a complete charlatan with this pseudo-scientific climate nonsense.
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Old 04-24-2024, 06:29 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
485 posts, read 113,083 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emman85 View Post
You continue to prove how delusional you are, Georgia alone has more palm species than New Zealand, it has
several bromeliad species.

Denmark has freakin Norway spruces, a boreal like tree, you are REALLY reaching here, that's like saying India and Norway share "common" lineage because they both have some deciduous flora, you are a complete charlatan with this pseudo-scientific climate nonsense.
For real!!!
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Old 04-24-2024, 06:37 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
485 posts, read 113,083 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesja View Post
It’s not that hard.

Also, why are you lying? NO SOURCE echoes such a number:

https://learnz.org.nz/bioblitz191/bg...nowhere%20else.





NO calculation of floristic diversity in Georgia includes fauna. Your argumentation is getting super bizarre:





…the fact that Georgia is part of a landmass has no bearing on its floristic diversity. Endemism would logically be more prominent on an island than in a random state that’s a part of a landmass, that has no bearing on the subtropical climate/ecology discussion



Uh, no.

1) Atlanta’s vegetation is adapted to the North American temperate zone, and the subtropical zone of the American South and Caribbean. Its ecological traits reflect a “warm temperate moist forest” zone, close to the subtropical Holdridge zone, whereas Denmark’s reflect a “cold temperate moist forest” zone.

2) “Northern deciduous” means something different on each continent. The temperate vegetation in the US reflects a mixture of endemic species, species that trace their origins to East Asia, with some European and South American evolutions and introductions.
The Caribbean is not subtropical but tropical. Atlanta has the temperate mixed forests(both southern coniferous and deciduous) so it obviously has characteristics from the northern temperate zone, but not like Denmark at all. Denmark has boreal trees while just slightly south of Atlanta there is native palm trees, the environments are just different. Yep Atlanta us in the warm temperate ecozone, typical of a humid subtropical climate in US. Denmark is cold temperate forest, the climate is oceanic with sone boreal and continental characteristics. Georgia has more native biodiversity than NZ, that’s for sure.
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