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View Poll Results: Which one is more subtropical
Wellington, NZ 1 5.88%
Atlanta, GA 14 82.35%
Both in their way 2 11.76%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-12-2024, 03:23 PM
 
2,363 posts, read 1,850,107 times
Reputation: 2490

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtropical-is-temperate3 View Post
No Atlanta has 4 seasons, how can you say 3. I was born in northern Alabama eventhough winters are not brutal as continental climates we have the 4 seasons. December-March is winter and frost is common in nights and early morning and cold days, March-May we do have spring, March blooms, April greens up, and May heats up into the hellish long tropical summer, June-September the tropical hell!!’ October and November is our beautiful fall season with perfect sunny weather and colorful leaves, warm to hot days and cold nights, it is infact the most comfortable of the season. 3 seasons, impossible, what are those seasons. 3 seasons for me is maybe here, but not quite it is more like an obvious transition from 4 to 2 perfectly without ever expressing in 3. Where do you get this idea which is completele nonsense?!

Btw Boston Massachusetts is humid subtropical still, though with a perfect continental vibe being close to boundary. The fact that Cape Cod which is oceanic has a native plant which is from subtropical climates, that makes me view oceanic climates way different. Ilex opaca is a humid subtropical native in the US, so if oceanic Cape Cod nearly continental(strong continental vibe) can grow a subtropical as native, the NZ compared to it with its warm oceanic is a tropical paradise and the fact that it’s vegetation is frost tender, that makes total sense.
I lived in MA for 15+ years and Atlanta for 5 years. MA and Atlanta both have four seasons, Atlanta just has better ones. Atlanta definitely has jacket days. The mean minimum temp annually is -9c. Overall winter and spring are far better in Atlanta than Mass. Summer is only slightly worse

Also should note that Boston's airport is unrepresentative of the metro and very unrepresentative of central New England, never mind Northern New England

Boston Logan reports overall winter temperatures slightly above freezing, with the coldest month at -1.2c

Nearby Worcester, Massachusetts has a coldest month of -4.1

Other places in Western MA have colder winters. Amherst, MA's coldest month is -4.5. North Adams is -4.8

This difference in January temps is comparable to the difference between January in London vs January in southern France or Naples, Italy.
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Old 04-12-2024, 03:43 PM
 
34 posts, read 4,771 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtropical-is-temperate3 View Post
No Atlanta has 4 seasons, how can you say 3. I was born in northern Alabama eventhough winters are not brutal as continental climates we have the 4 seasons. December-March is winter and frost is common in nights and early morning and cold days, March-May we do have spring, March blooms, April greens up, and May heats up into the hellish long tropical summer, June-September the tropical hell!!’ October and November is our beautiful fall season with perfect sunny weather and colorful leaves, warm to hot days and cold nights, it is infact the most comfortable of the season. 3 seasons, impossible, what are those seasons. 3 seasons for me is maybe here, but not quite it is more like an obvious transition from 4 to 2 perfectly without ever expressing in 3. Where do you get this idea which is completele nonsense?!

Btw Boston Massachusetts is humid subtropical still, though with a perfect continental vibe being close to boundary. The fact that Cape Cod which is oceanic has a native plant which is from subtropical climates, that makes me view oceanic climates way different. Ilex opaca is a humid subtropical native in the US, so if oceanic Cape Cod nearly continental(strong continental vibe) can grow a subtropical as native, the NZ compared to it with its warm oceanic is a tropical paradise and the fact that it’s vegetation is frost tender, that makes total sense.
It’s 3. The winter isn’t cold enough to be a proper winter - for that, average highs need to be somewhat close to the freezing point for that, and they aren’t.

What’s more, the growing season is long, and this particularly impacts the fall, which is almost nonexistent.
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Old 04-12-2024, 04:08 PM
 
34 posts, read 4,771 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Space_League View Post
I lived in MA for 15+ years and Atlanta for 5 years. MA and Atlanta both have four seasons, Atlanta just has better ones. Atlanta definitely has jacket days. The mean minimum temp annually is -9c. Overall winter and spring are far better in Atlanta than Mass. Summer is only slightly worse

Also should note that Boston's airport is unrepresentative of the metro and very unrepresentative of central New England, never mind Northern New England

Boston Logan reports overall winter temperatures slightly above freezing, with the coldest month at -1.2c

Nearby Worcester, Massachusetts has a coldest month of -4.1

Other places in Western MA have colder winters. Amherst, MA's coldest month is -4.5. North Adams is -4.8

This difference in January temps is comparable to the difference between January in London vs January in southern France or Naples, Italy.
Atlanta has no winter.

Chicago has four seasons. Atlanta does not. It’s a 3 season climate.
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Old 04-12-2024, 04:10 PM
 
34 posts, read 4,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandshark View Post
It's environment isn't similar to Brittany, and lacks dormancy unlike Atlanta, so it's really a discussion on why people get confused between ecology and climate.
It’s not though.

Length of the dormant season is important. Places like Atlanta will barely have the leaves change color by Halloween, most years…this is the important aspect of the gradient we’ve been trying to explain to New Zealander’s. There’s dormancy in Atlanta, but its dormant period is much shorter than Chicago’s.
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Old 04-12-2024, 04:32 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
376 posts, read 94,311 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesja View Post
It’s not though.

Length of the dormant season is important. Places like Atlanta will barely have the leaves change color by Halloween, most years…this is the important aspect of the gradient we’ve been trying to explain to New Zealander’s. There’s dormancy in Atlanta, but its dormant period is much shorter than Chicago’s.
Yes, and wellington doesn't have a dormant season. Easy to understand the dormancy gradient in nz, as it applies to nz as well with regard to deciduous or winter flowering species.

The behaviour of introduced deciduous species into mild winter areas can be interesting. Some years where I live can have full colour by the start of april, but then daffodils emerging in late autumn/early winter the same year. Other years can see little change in colour, with trees like oaks not losing leaves until a mid winter storm. Very inconsistent, but always the required chill for deciduous trees producing crops.
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Old 04-12-2024, 04:46 PM
 
2,363 posts, read 1,850,107 times
Reputation: 2490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesja View Post
Atlanta has no winter.

Chicago has four seasons. Atlanta does not. It’s a 3 season climate.
It obviously does though. For the three months of the year where temperatures fall below 50 degrees is Atlanta's winter. It's very distinct from Spring and Autumn.

January: 45 degrees
April: 63 degrees
July: 81 degrees
October: 65 degrees

Winter average: 47 degrees
Spring Average: 63 degrees
Summer Average: 80 degrees
Autumn Average: 65 degrees


Winter Monthly Range: 45-49 degrees
Spring Monthly Range: 56-71 degrees
Summer Monthly Range: 78-81 degrees
Autumn Monthly Range: 54-75 degrees

There are very little differences between the weather in December, January, and February in Atlanta. Similar to the summer months where there is little difference in temperatures among them. There is a clear distinction between the shoulder seasons and winter.
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Old 04-13-2024, 02:25 PM
 
34 posts, read 4,771 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Space_League View Post
It obviously does though. For the three months of the year where temperatures fall below 50 degrees is Atlanta's winter. It's very distinct from Spring and Autumn.

January: 45 degrees
April: 63 degrees
July: 81 degrees
October: 65 degrees

Winter average: 47 degrees
Spring Average: 63 degrees
Summer Average: 80 degrees
Autumn Average: 65 degrees


Winter Monthly Range: 45-49 degrees
Spring Monthly Range: 56-71 degrees
Summer Monthly Range: 78-81 degrees
Autumn Monthly Range: 54-75 degrees

There are very little differences between the weather in December, January, and February in Atlanta. Similar to the summer months where there is little difference in temperatures among them. There is a clear distinction between the shoulder seasons and winter.
It doesn’t have a winter by Chicago standards. I understand Americans want to all be considered to live in a hypercontinental cold paradise (“aren’t you so tough for dealing with the Arctic frigid freezing cold inhospitable-for-trees climate of Atlanta and North Carolina”), but come on. Stop pretending.

That’s also not sarcasm, because that’s genuinely how the climate of the entire US is talked about.

If the average high doesn’t fall below 50, and you have mean maximums of 70+ degrees in EVERY MONTH OF WINTER, you have a spring-like winter. I really don’t care about overnight lows pulling down the daily mean.

Atlanta’s fall is also pathetic compared to Illinois’ or Massachusetts.
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Old 04-13-2024, 02:37 PM
 
Location: St. Pete Beach, FL
140 posts, read 32,641 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey the Otter View Post
I mean, I got hit by a cold snap in St Pete one time, and found myself wearing a hoodie whilst walking palm-lined streets.

It is almost tropical but still subtropical, as cold snaps can still happen.
Bro this year it was 36°F, a hoodie, no, full jacket, layers, mittens, and everything!
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Old 04-13-2024, 02:38 PM
 
Location: St. Pete Beach, FL
140 posts, read 32,641 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesja View Post
It doesn’t have a winter by Chicago standards. I understand Americans want to all be considered to live in a hypercontinental cold paradise (“aren’t you so tough for dealing with the Arctic frigid freezing cold inhospitable-for-trees climate of Atlanta and North Carolina”), but come on. Stop pretending.

That’s also not sarcasm, because that’s genuinely how the climate of the entire US is talked about.

If the average high doesn’t fall below 50, and you have mean maximums of 70+ degrees in EVERY MONTH OF WINTER, you have a spring-like winter. I really don’t care about overnight lows pulling down the daily mean.

Atlanta’s fall is also pathetic compared to Illinois’ or Massachusetts.
Hahaha, Chicago is not the best continental, it averages 26.2°F coldest month, -3°C isotherm is 26.6°F so basically borderline in one of the isotherms!!!!!
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Old 04-13-2024, 02:40 PM
 
Location: St. Pete Beach, FL
140 posts, read 32,641 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesja View Post
It’s not though.

Length of the dormant season is important. Places like Atlanta will barely have the leaves change color by Halloween, most years…this is the important aspect of the gradient we’ve been trying to explain to New Zealander’s. There’s dormancy in Atlanta, but its dormant period is much shorter than Chicago’s.
Lies, they even changed here, specifically in halloween
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