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JCC is missing something.....can't put my finger on it but obviously other buyers are thinking that too. Mirasol is on the PGA corridor (tons of restaurants, golf courses, shopping etc), Frenchmans is bigger homes (and lots of them) and that must attract the younger families.
Yes, I'm sure there's appeal to some in terms of more bustling area and larger homes, but again that's not what we're looking for and at this point in our lives we're not interested in buying something based on appeal to others so as to help with some potential future resale profit.
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Originally Posted by City Guy997S
One thing that still shocks me about Toll is that they will still build a million dollar home with a wood 2nd floor (both walls and floors). Most builders today accept the fact that when you get to a certain price point concrete walls from foundation to roof is the standard especially in Florida (mold, bugs, hurricanes, etc love wood!).
On that point we most definitely agree. That fact played a part in our decision to not even consider one of their two level homes. We noted that right away.
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Originally Posted by City Guy997S
JCC has been flat for 2012 with 7 sales (3 new homes, 4 resales). The resales lost 539K, 532K, 621K plus real estate transaction costs and a townhouse lost 28K (sold for 395K back in May). The 3 new homes were 499, 599 and 624K. So obviously the values are simply not there so Toll rolled the prices back but also shrunk the floorplans accordingly. http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/papa/...lesSearch.aspx
The market has been pretty flat everywhere and I think most would agree that it's only now starting to pick up. To me, this just reinforces that it's the right time to buy. The builder has reduced prices, added incentives, and interest rates are still low. The problem with many of the upside down owners you keep referencing is that they bought during the bubble. And that has been a problem in many communities all around the country.
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Originally Posted by City Guy997S
Toll might be the greatest award winning builder but I would bet the 30 or 35 owners out there at JCC wish they never bought a house out there! Look up an aerial photo and you will see very few homes and lots of empty lots.....kind of makes the neighborhood look/feel abandoned. Worst part is some people have lived out there since 2007!
Again, just reading the news, I'm sure you are aware of the many homeowners nationwide who wish they hadn't purchased homes in the middle of the housing bubble. Other than poor timing for the community and its early purchasers, I'm still not sure of the point you're trying to make regarding JCC.
And as far as aerial photos, Google Earth's imagery for JCC dates back to March of 2011, making it over a year and a half old. The appearance from the aerials of the empty lots concerned us only until we were able to ground truth the data. Our recent visit there left us pleasantly surprised with the number of completed homes as well as those with construction underway.
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Originally Posted by City Guy997S
BTW Toll has another project going right now in Juno Beach on the Intracoastal waterway called Frenchmans Marina......open 12-15 months, two models built and 3-4 other homes under construction, not exactly booming either despite it being the last master planned community on the ICW.
It's actually called Frenchman's Harbor, and we were on the waiting list there for one of the carriage homes. Personally, I don't think that slowly selling communities have waiting lists ... In any event, 9 of the ten buildings with carriage homes are already sold out, and there will be a lottery to draw names from the waiting list for the last of the ten buildings. Sales have been so hot (as you said, not unexpected given the location), that they indicated they'll be raising the prices on these remaining homes to over $1M, making it more than we care to spend. In the meantime we also decided we'd like to stick with a single family home. And the single family homes in Frenchman's Harbor are well out of our intended price range.
Again, I'm still trying to understand the comments you're making but the only real negative regarding the community or TB construction is regarding the construction of their multi-level homes, and that doesn't apply in our particular case.
Again, I'm still trying to understand the comments you're making but the only real negative regarding the community or TB construction is regarding the construction of their multi-level homes, and that doesn't apply in our particular case.
I think the "sales center" is misleading you with their hype.....
If these homes were selling then they would be building them asap, plenty of construction workers sitting on the couch these days. Take a ride to Rialto in Jupiter just for a comparison, probably 40+ homes under construction right now (values range from the high 300's to high 700's). They are selling homes yet Toll doesn't have 40 total homes under construction in 3 neighborhoods! Hmmm why is that if the sales center has a waiting list? You might be amazed to find that a 5K check can "hold" your lot and plenty of people walk away without building anything.
BTW you won't be disappointed in living in Frenchman's Harbor, take another visit at dusk and a low tide, the stench from the mangroves and the biting sting from the "no see-ums" will have you back in your car in 30 seconds or less! High tide makes the place look really swampy on the road side also. Did the "sales center" mention those environmental issues while putting your name on the waiting list?
JCC has been flat for 2012 with 7 sales (3 new homes, 4 resales). The resales lost 539K, 532K, 621K plus real estate transaction costs and a townhouse lost 28K (sold for 395K back in May). The 3 new homes were 499, 599 and 624K. So obviously the values are simply not there so Toll rolled the prices back but also shrunk the floorplans accordingly. http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/papa/...lesSearch.aspx
I went back and looked at the tax records, and the new sales that you have referenced were all for condos except for one, which was for one of the smallest (if not *the* smallest) golf villas, with less than 1700 square feet base area. It doesn't surprise me that the prices were in the ranges they were. What I would be interested in knowing, and I will ask about, is the number of homes under contract.
The market has been pretty flat everywhere and I think most would agree that it's only now starting to pick up. To me, this just reinforces that it's the right time to buy. The builder has reduced prices, added incentives, and interest rates are still low. The problem with many of the upside down owners you keep referencing is that they bought during the bubble. And that has been a problem in many communities all around the country.
Yes, you could lose money on anything bought in the boom but go back to the sales search for the county and look at Frenchmans Reserve in the Savoie neighborhood. They have had more sales on one street than JCC has in the last 2 year period. Savoie has 5K sq ft homes, street probably has 60 homes on it and houses are still selling for 1.0-1.2mm which is what they sold for new in 2005 (right in the boom). Why? Same houses as JCC, same builder yet they are getting the same money they cost new whereas JCC losing value?
Low interest rates are great, but keep in mind JCC is lowering prices due to low demand not out of the goodness of their heart and the the place still isn't selling.
I went back and looked at the tax records, and the new sales that you have referenced were all for condos except for one, which was for one of the smallest (if not *the* smallest) golf villas, with less than 1700 square feet base area. It doesn't surprise me that the prices were in the ranges they were. What I would be interested in knowing, and I will ask about, is the number of homes under contract.
3 new sales (all between Feb and April)......hmm nothing sold new since April (it is November already).
Be sure to ask why there has been no "CLOSED" sales since April 2012 on new construction. Contract does not = closed sales.
2 on carina (not condo, #153 and 156)
1 tresana
You can click on date range and narrow it down by year or since day one
I think the "sales center" is misleading you with their hype.....
If these homes were selling then they would be building them asap, plenty of construction workers sitting on the couch these days. Take a ride to Rialto in Jupiter just for a comparison, probably 40+ homes under construction right now (values range from the high 300's to high 700's). They are selling homes yet Toll doesn't have 40 total homes under construction in 3 neighborhoods! Hmmm why is that if the sales center has a waiting list? You might be amazed to find that a 5K check can "hold" your lot and plenty of people walk away without building anything.
BTW you won't be disappointed in living in Frenchman's Harbor, take another visit at dusk and a low tide, the stench from the mangroves and the biting sting from the "no see-ums" will have you back in your car in 30 seconds or less! High tide makes the place look really swampy on the road side also. Did the "sales center" mention those environmental issues while putting your name on the waiting list?
Yes, $5K holds the lot. For 10 days. We had a backup hold at Frenchman's Harbor just in case the original buyer dropped out within the ten days. In the meantime, we decided we weren't really interested in living there. As far as Rialto we drove through there. It does not appeal to me in the least. At any price.
As far as construction workers sitting on the couch these days, it's not because there's no work at JCC. We saw lots of activity there last month and expect to see even more when we're there next week. I'll keep y'all posted. (In the meantime, if you have any other 'real' observations of deficiencies, please share. Right now it just sounds like some sort of bias or grudge, IMNSHO.)
Yes, $5K holds the lot. For 10 days. We had a backup hold at Frenchman's Harbor just in case the original buyer dropped out within the ten days. In the meantime, we decided we weren't really interested in living there. As far as Rialto we drove through there. It does not appeal to me in the least. At any price.
As far as construction workers sitting on the couch these days, it's not because there's no work at JCC. We saw lots of activity there last month and expect to see even more when we're there next week. I'll keep y'all posted. (In the meantime, if you have any other 'real' observations of deficiencies, please share. Right now it just sounds like some sort of bias or grudge, IMNSHO.)
No "grudge or bias" against Toll I just don't drink the koolaid! Sorry my facts from the county don't agree with the sales center's "rosier outlook!" I just think they are using the oldest trick in the book, "almost sold out, price increase coming, better buy now before it is too late" and you took the bait, hook, line and sinker!
I just used Rialto as a local community comparison (nearest new development that is bustling with activity) and Mirasol/Frenchmans as similar lifestyle communities that are doing better. You could also drive through Abacoa and note all the construction that is going on vs. the "crickets" at JCC.
I did get off the Turnpike today and took another ride by JCC. I figured out part of the issue, ZERO curb appeal for the community. That swampy fountain concept just doesn't work (vs the Vegas type at Frenchmans Reserve) and they mow/maintain the landscaping buffer but then there is a 40 ft wide area of unmowed grass 2ft tall between the street and the buffer....looks awful. From the front gate you cannot walk to even a grocery store, whereas Frenchmans/Mirasol you could easily hit the nearby Publix. As an added touch the county has an asphalt mountain (40 ft high) less than 1/4 mile away, not exactly PGA Blvd shops going on there.
Good luck on your future purchase at JCC, like I said before sorry my facts blur the fantasy that the sales center sold you on. Remember the key to real estate is location, location, location and all the free golf memberships in the world won't change that.
We bought Heritage Collection home in Aug, we close in July 2013. We look forward to making JCC our home. As we all know, RE is not what it use to be. I know we love the home we are building and right now that's our priority. We hope to be surrounded by friendly folks that want to build a community together.
There are many positive things about Jupiter and the community that outweigh the negatives
No "grudge or bias" against Toll I just don't drink the koolaid! Sorry my facts from the county don't agree with the sales center's "rosier outlook!" I just think they are using the oldest trick in the book, "almost sold out, price increase coming, better buy now before it is too late" and you took the bait, hook, line and sinker!
Sorry. Ain't that simple. Please give one concrete example of what you're trying to prove against TB or against this community. I'm not seeing it.
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Originally Posted by City Guy997S
I just used Rialto as a local community comparison (nearest new development that is bustling with activity) and Mirasol/Frenchmans as similar lifestyle communities that are doing better. You could also drive through Abacoa and note all the construction that is going on vs. the "crickets" at JCC.
Thank you for the admission that Rialto (UGH! Yuck!!) really isn't comparable. Nor are the others, given what we're looking for. Abacoa? Really??! I don't think so ...
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Originally Posted by City Guy997S
I did get off the Turnpike today and took another ride by JCC. I figured out part of the issue, ZERO curb appeal for the community. That swampy fountain concept just doesn't work (vs the Vegas type at Frenchmans Reserve) and they mow/maintain the landscaping buffer but then there is a 40 ft wide area of unmowed grass 2ft tall between the street and the buffer....looks awful. From the front gate you cannot walk to even a grocery store, whereas Frenchmans/Mirasol you could easily hit the nearby Publix. As an added touch the county has an asphalt mountain (40 ft high) less than 1/4 mile away, not exactly PGA Blvd shops going on there.
Ummm ... really? Really? Sorry, but I'm the customer. I'm *extremely* picky and even I was impressed. I have a lot of friends who live in Jupiter and the surrounding areas. They think this area is *under* valued, if anything, right now.
Totally LOL'd @ "swampy fountain concept" ... hahaha ... especially when transposed against "Vegas-type" at Frenchmans. Was that supposed to be a 'plus'?? ...
Okay, so moving back to reality, I can't walk to a grocery store. And sorry, but I fail to see the relevance. I live currently in one of the highest priced areas of the country. And I am within walking distance to a grocery store. And that is in an area in which that might make one iota of a difference, given that we really experience "winter" once in awhile. So, a reasonable person might ask, "Do you *ever* walk to the grocery store [and back, lugging groceries]" My answer would be no. Sooooooooo, is that an important factor to me in the purchase of a new home? NO.
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Originally Posted by City Guy997S
Good luck on your future purchase at JCC, like I said before sorry my facts blur the fantasy that the sales center sold you on. Remember the key to real estate is location, location, location and all the free golf memberships in the world won't change that.
Thanks, and again, if you have facts to offer, I still have an open mind. If not, you're just like the Obama and Romney campaigns. Lots of criticisms and complaints, but few real facts.
And yes, it is all about location, location, location. The recent hurricane reinforced my decision not to live closer to the coast, to JCC's location works perfectly for me. For other reasons, I have no desire to even look any further south, so if it came down to it I'd probably start looking either north to Stuart or to the gulf coast.
... all the free golf memberships in the world won't change that.
Oh, and just as an FYI: Neither my husband nor I have the slightest interest in golf and don't expect to suddenly develop an interest. One of the major appealing factors was that we would not be required to purchase any sort of golf equity or membership as part of the purchase.
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plus real estate transaction costs and a townhouse lost 28K (sold for 395K back in May). The 3 new homes were 499, 599 and 624K. So obviously the values are simply not there so Toll rolled the prices back but also shrunk the floorplans accordingly.
Remember the key to real estate is location, location, location and all the free golf memberships in the world won't change that.
