Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Just wondering SKB how far down do you really think home values will go? Lets assume they drop another 5% on a 250k home like later is looking for that's $12,500. To rent something comparable for a year at say 1500 a month is $18,000. That doesn't seem like good financial advice if you ask me...
Home prices on foreclosures are nearing 100 a square foot in many areas, like later mentioned you can't build a house for anywhere near that. Many of these are actually nice livable homes too.
Sure there is a chance homes will go down a bit, but if you are actually living in them and not flipping them you should easily be able to make up any loss (if any).
When your crystal ball tells you that we are at the "real bottom" please let us all know. If people aren't out buying homes the market will never turn around.
Based on your figures:
Try adding another 529.00 to that monthly amount as you forgot about taxes and insurance.
I calculated 1200 a year for the insurance ( very subjective) and another 5159.00 per year for taxes (with homestead exception included)
The grand total is 1829.00 per month, plus maintenance costs.
Funny as the house I am renting ( built in 99) at 1500 pm just had numerous things go wrong with it and my landlord is pulling out his hair. All I do is send him an email telling him of the repairs that need doing and he has to run around like crazy, finding the parts, hiring people etc...all the while costing HIM more money. Pool needed a new vacuum, dryer needed replacing, sliding glass door lock broke, needed new garage door opener. I think he is now in the repairs for about a grand.
We have lived in this house for six months. He pays for the water softener salt and comes and puts it in each month and cleans the pool.
He is also not able to collect enough on the rent on this house to make his total payment (Mortgage, Taxes, Insurance) and now he is losing his homestead exception for 09 taxes so add on another 1552.00 per year for him.
How is this not good financial advice?
We are NO where near the bottom on LAND.
As far as building costs go explain to me how they can build so much cheaper in lets say Port St Lucie? I can't get a builder to build me the same home here in Loxahatchee for the same price, why is that?
Because they are greedy and want to keep the prices high that is why, nothing to do with building costs.
We are NO place near the bottom in my area, I don't need a crystal ball to tell me that either, basic math skills and half a brain is all one needs.
All I have to do is see the median price for my area and the median income to see that we are still no where close to even reasonable . When we are three times the median income versus price we are then at least at historical norms.
In fact, due to the severe economic crisis we are facing bottoms don't even mean anything and YES CASH is king. Not just investors have cash, we are sitting on a pile and waiting for prices to look more like other costal areas that have collapsed like Phoenix and Los Vegas before we make a purchase.
Oh on a side note, I have been a member of this board for several years and I was picked apart when I said we were going to have a housing crash, I said minimum 50% and was scorned and laughed at. So far everything I said came true and everything all of the realtors that argued with me said was a joke. Do you remember the "great time to buy" promotion of 07? ROFLMAO. If you search for my earlier posts you will see I have been correct in everything that I predicted.
One more thing this works out to 64.00 a square foot on new construction and they are STILL making money:
Here's a great deal for you... RMLS RES Customer No VT Report This is a worst case scenario foreclosure. Sad to see people do this to such a nice home...
Seriously though the issues you ran into are unfortunate, but at the prices you can buy a foreclosure at it's usually worth the headache. People like Bobstar can attest to that. Short sales if you are patient and have a few months to burn can be worth it as well depending on the situation.
Wow thats the perfect deal for me. I am very handy and could easily fix all that myself and would enjoy building my own kitchen and bathroom etc the way I wanted. Only problem is as a computer technical support analyst I make $100K up north, if I could make even $65K down in PBC I would move but cant find anything in the way of jobs that would let me. But man that place is what I'm looking for. QUICK...Someone find me a job!
I was looking at homes that sold 2 years ago for $450-$525 that were selling for $200-$240. I don't know if there might be a little bit more bottom there or not, but it has to be close. Anytime you can buy a home well ender what the builder's actual costs were to build it, you're doing good. I think the bottom is in. Just my opinion.
Yes, that may seem like a better price but if you consider that homes didn't just double in value you then see that the value is still not there.
Lots in my area that sold in 2000 for 15,000 were selling for 150,000 and beyond. Now some of these same lots are listed for under 40,000 and I am still not interested. A lot that sold for 15,000 in 2000 should not be worth any more than 19,500 so you see we are still out of wack with land prices.
Builders can build for 64.00 a sq foot, do the math.
Adams Homes - Port St. Lucie - HomeFax how can you compare building costs on a stick built aluminum sided, shutters are probably optional, shingle roofed home to a cbs home with tile roofs? Not to mention your wonderful view of the turnpike in where? Port St. Lucie? Do the math...
I could be wrong but I don't think building codes would even allow you to build a home like this in PBC that's why you can't get them to build you this home at this price.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if everyone sat on the fence right now and waited for "the real bottom" (which doesn't exist by the way) the market would crash even harder than it has. People buying homes takes inventory off the market, less inventory means less supply, less supply means prices slowly stabilize.
Prices are around 02-03 prices how much lower do you expect them to go?
You have not responded comment about when you said "That doesn't seem like good financial advice if you ask me.."
I proved to you that renting was better financial sense than buying a home and you just ignored my statement and went on to assume stick construction and optional shutters The laws on home building are very clear in FLORIDA. ALL new homes MUST come with Shutters.
These homes are built using CBS and don't have aluminum siding and come with shutters btw. If you want a tile roof obviously that would be more money as that is NEVER a standard feature with any home.
In fact, I even called the builder and they confirmed it. CBS construction, tile floors, granite counters oh and the LOT IS INCLUDED, so that brings the price of building the house EVEN CHEAPER.
Call her if you don't believe me. 521-751-1530. She even said we are not at the bottom.
Why doesn't a real bottom exist?
Just because YOU don't want the prices to fall any further.
Explain to me how prices at the 02-03 level reflect the end of the housing crash? WHY?
Let me explain something to you, the bubble started in 99 in Florida, we still have a LONG way to fall before prices are back to affordability again.
I bet you are one of those realtors that list a 200,000 home as a " cute starter home".
Forget that, the day I pay that much money for a home will be when I move into my dream home ( which before the bubble existed no problem) and for an extra 50,000 you could go crazy over the top and have a pool and a screened lanai, nice tile set on the diagonal and nice wood cabinets.
The only way right now to get that is to buy a REO, that has been sitting empty for a year and the pool is ruined, no a/c unit, damage all over the place etc...
We are NO way close to a bottom as we will be at real bottom when the frenzy of investors stop swopping in like midnight shoppers at K-Mart on a blue light special.
The prices will come down by a mile yet and then there will be plenty of homes to go around for everyone, as ALL HOMES will be priced correctly. You still see way to many listings with prices that are so off with what is actually going to sell. I am not interested in paying for someone's retirement fund. I refuse to pay bubble prices period.
***NOTE TO SELF***
It is so stupid for me to continue to argue with realtors. I have been arguing with realtors for YEARS on this now. I have proved my points EVERY TIME. I understand the personal interest in this, a livelihood no doubt. I just want a nice home to live in with a price that I can live with that I don't feel is unfair.
It says right on the ad aluminum siding 2x4 construction... I'm sure when you sit down and go over everything magically these costs will add up quickly. On top of that it's still a home in PSL on the turnpike.
As far as renting you're also not figuring any tax advantages and insurance discounts to owning. Taxes you quoted are on the high side in many communities. The simple fact of home ownership is a worth a lot to most people as well the costs/annoyance of moving multiple times. That's also assuming it falls 5% what if it doesn't, what if it doesn't go down further, or goes up for that matter?
You make a real bottom sound like a day that everything is going to magically turn around and prices will go no lower. When in reality every city, even down to every neighborhood was affected differently. While pretty much every where in South Florida has taken a loss some areas are already slowly bouncing back and the only inventory left is homes that are not short sales or foreclosures.
I agree there are still sellers asking inflated prices, but for the most part these homes will not appraise at this value and they are essentially wasting their own time.
Traditionally an REO would be considered a disaster like you speak of but there are many properties like this RMLS RES Customer No VT Report that aren't in bad shape and even at the inflated prices as you say we are at are great values to the majority of buyers.
My point is if everyone thought like you and sat and waited like a vulture for property value to crash even lower the market would go into freefall. Nobody would have value in their homes and 1000's of more people would be foreclosing. You should be happy that people are coming down purchasing homes so people like your landlord still have some value left in their home to be able to rent it to you instead of giving it back to the bank.
I will not allow disrespect here. Different points of views, opinions, etc are encouraged, as well as healthy debate, but be respectful in your posts.
Realtor bashing will not be allowed. Skyinlet has proven to be a good help here, and I think his responses have been more respectful then some of the posts directed to him have been.
I think we can all make our points without disrespect.
Just wondering SKB how far down do you really think home values will go? Lets assume they drop another 5% on a 250k home like later is looking for that's $12,500. To rent something comparable for a year at say 1500 a month is $18,000. That doesn't seem like good financial advice if you ask me...
Home prices on foreclosures are nearing 100 a square foot in many areas, like later mentioned you can't build a house for anywhere near that. Many of these are actually nice livable homes too.
Sure there is a chance homes will go down a bit, but if you are actually living in them and not flipping them you should easily be able to make up any loss (if any).
When your crystal ball tells you that we are at the "real bottom" please let us all know. If people aren't out buying homes the market will never turn around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKB
Based on your figures:
Try adding another 529.00 to that monthly amount as you forgot about taxes and insurance.
I calculated 1200 a year for the insurance ( very subjective) and another 5159.00 per year for taxes (with homestead exception included)
The grand total is 1829.00 per month, plus maintenance costs.
Funny as the house I am renting ( built in 99) at 1500 pm just had numerous things go wrong with it and my landlord is pulling out his hair. All I do is send him an email telling him of the repairs that need doing and he has to run around like crazy, finding the parts, hiring people etc...all the while costing HIM more money. Pool needed a new vacuum, dryer needed replacing, sliding glass door lock broke, needed new garage door opener. I think he is now in the repairs for about a grand.
We have lived in this house for six months. He pays for the water softener salt and comes and puts it in each month and cleans the pool.
He is also not able to collect enough on the rent on this house to make his total payment (Mortgage, Taxes, Insurance) and now he is losing his homestead exception for 09 taxes so add on another 1552.00 per year for him.
How is this not good financial advice?
We are NO where near the bottom on LAND.
As far as building costs go explain to me how they can build so much cheaper in lets say Port St Lucie? I can't get a builder to build me the same home here in Loxahatchee for the same price, why is that?
Because they are greedy and want to keep the prices high that is why, nothing to do with building costs.
We are NO place near the bottom in my area, I don't need a crystal ball to tell me that either, basic math skills and half a brain is all one needs.
All I have to do is see the median price for my area and the median income to see that we are still no where close to even reasonable . When we are three times the median income versus price we are then at least at historical norms.
In fact, due to the severe economic crisis we are facing bottoms don't even mean anything and YES CASH is king. Not just investors have cash, we are sitting on a pile and waiting for prices to look more like other costal areas that have collapsed like Phoenix and Los Vegas before we make a purchase.
Oh on a side note, I have been a member of this board for several years and I was picked apart when I said we were going to have a housing crash, I said minimum 50% and was scorned and laughed at. So far everything I said came true and everything all of the realtors that argued with me said was a joke. Do you remember the "great time to buy" promotion of 07? ROFLMAO. If you search for my earlier posts you will see I have been correct in everything that I predicted.
One more thing this works out to 64.00 a square foot on new construction and they are STILL making money:
Adams Homes - Port St. Lucie - HomeFax how can you compare building costs on a stick built aluminum sided, shutters are probably optional, shingle roofed home to a cbs home with tile roofs? Not to mention your wonderful view of the turnpike in where? Port St. Lucie? Do the math...
I could be wrong but I don't think building codes would even allow you to build a home like this in PBC that's why you can't get them to build you this home at this price.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if everyone sat on the fence right now and waited for "the real bottom" (which doesn't exist by the way) the market would crash even harder than it has. People buying homes takes inventory off the market, less inventory means less supply, less supply means prices slowly stabilize.
Prices are around 02-03 prices how much lower do you expect them to go?
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylinet
It says right on the ad aluminum siding 2x4 construction... I'm sure when you sit down and go over everything magically these costs will add up quickly. On top of that it's still a home in PSL on the turnpike.
As far as renting you're also not figuring any tax advantages and insurance discounts to owning. Taxes you quoted are on the high side in many communities. The simple fact of home ownership is a worth a lot to most people as well the costs/annoyance of moving multiple times. That's also assuming it falls 5% what if it doesn't, what if it doesn't go down further, or goes up for that matter?
You make a real bottom sound like a day that everything is going to magically turn around and prices will go no lower. When in reality every city, even down to every neighborhood was affected differently. While pretty much every where in South Florida has taken a loss some areas are already slowly bouncing back and the only inventory left is homes that are not short sales or foreclosures.
I agree there are still sellers asking inflated prices, but for the most part these homes will not appraise at this value and they are essentially wasting their own time.
Traditionally an REO would be considered a disaster like you speak of but there are many properties like this RMLS RES Customer No VT Report that aren't in bad shape and even at the inflated prices as you say we are at are great values to the majority of buyers.
My point is if everyone thought like you and sat and waited like a vulture for property value to crash even lower the market would go into freefall. Nobody would have value in their homes and 1000's of more people would be foreclosing. You should be happy that people are coming down purchasing homes so people like your landlord still have some value left in their home to be able to rent it to you instead of giving it back to the bank.
You are mistaken the ad doesn't say that.
RE read it.
It says 2 x 6 Aluminum Fascia.
Like I said, I called them and spoke with the agent she said ALL of their homes are CBS. Adams Homes - Port St. Lucie - HomeFax
They are also selling these homes in other areas like Melbourne Florida and the ones they are selling in PSL don't necessary mean they are facing the turnpike.
The tax quote is on my area zip code 33470.
Please don't refer to me as a vulture, you have no idea on my own personal situation. I am just unwilling to pay a price that had anything to do with the bubble.
All I want is to pay a price for a home that would be the correct price to pay if the bubble didn't happen. How is that being a vulture?
I guess it was different when the prices were going up 30% year over year and expected to last forever and is not in any way greedy?
The our kids were expected to live in tent cities and Honda because they can't afford the one million dollar "starter home". Thank God the market finally crashed.
If salaries had kept up with the prices of homes then this would not be an issue but salaries didn't.
I am upset the price of chocolate bars are now .99 cents but I am not expecting them to go back to a dime again. That .99 is from inflation but these homes tripling in value WAS NOT.
I understand and agree with your point about a home's value. Some folks say that a current price is a "deal" because it is a $400K home a few years ago.
Whether it really was or not depends on the location and quality, etc. Value is a perceived thing. Prices that ballooned for a short time due to greed, etc., are not really representative of real value. It is a mistake to gauge the true value of anything on a one time peak price. What if we did that with stocks?
As with everything, one has the right to pay whatever they want for something. If a person wants a specific home now, then they pay the current pricetag. If one thinks the price may go down more, then they can wait and see, taking the risk of someone else willing to pay the current price may buy now.
With some things, I tend to favor the "deal", and deals come to the patient. On the other hand, there have been things I've jumped on not wanting to risk losing it. In the end, we all have to "own" what we do and be happy with the decisions we make.
"Traditionally an REO would be considered a disaster like you speak of but there are many properties like this RMLS RES Customer No VT Report that aren't in bad shape and even at the inflated prices as you say we are at are great values to the majority of buyers".
If the buyer only puts 5% down his monthly payment would be at least 2154.00 with taxes and insurance.
The taxes are going to be a whopping $7,372 (even higher in this area than my area) sure you can deduct the 750.00 after the first year if you get the homestead exception.
Calculate in the insurance with the taxes and this doesn't look like much of a deal to me.
Even with the twenty percent down-payment of 55,800, you are looking at least a 2,000 per month payment.
The screened in lanai and pool on this home will drive up the price of the insurance and I only added in 100.00 per month for this but it certainly would be higher than that. The only way to know for sure is to call a insurance agent, they can give you a quote.
I don't see the great value with this, I am sorry I am not trying to be difficult or bash. I continually see realtors advertising homes priced at this level as "affordable" and I don't see it that way.
The current median income for the zip code on that home you provided is $76,882 and the median price of a home in that same zip is 352,008. There is still a disconnect between those figures.
The median price of a home should be no more than 3X the median income.
So the median price of a home in this zip code should be 230,000. I would be more confident to buy a home when the historical norms of two hundred years are correct again.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
