01-16-2022, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
dcfas
Yeah. The surprising thing is it still might be worth it. The problem, of course, is if you have to sell it. It sure looks tempting to me.
Some people got crushed in Boca West when the membership became mandatory for new buyers. Your 200K+ condo suddenly was worth 10% of that. The HOA rules prevented VRBO type rentals and the membership fees aren't relatable for a buyer of a low price unit. If the unit went foreclosure the banks just gave them away because they knew hanging on to them would just incur huge club dues.
I can't believe someone didn't scoop up those units and rent them seasonally as a golfers dream package. I couldn't see how to make it work from a snowbird standpoint.
Same issue in Delray at Delaire, you get a 2500 sq ft home on a golf course lot for 200-300-400K, nice house! Then the dues crush you, one former owner even had a website outlining the screwing you get from the HOA and the club dues.
01-17-2022, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
City Guy997S
Some people got crushed in Boca West when the membership became mandatory for new buyers. Your 200K+ condo suddenly was worth 10% of that. The HOA rules prevented VRBO type rentals and the membership fees aren't relatable for a buyer of a low price unit. If the unit went foreclosure the banks just gave them away because they knew hanging on to them would just incur huge club dues.
Helpful to know. I saw in the other thread that you took a pretty negative view on the west Boca country clubs and HOA communities
Any thing that you would suggest as an alternative for someone who wants easy and frequent access to golf? Buying property in Delray or East Boca and joining a country club separately seems even more expensive, by several multiples.
Any good golf communities that aren’t such a disaster?
01-18-2022, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
FutureSnowbird
Helpful to know. I saw in the other thread that you took a pretty negative view on the west Boca country clubs and HOA communities
Any thing that you would suggest as an alternative for someone who wants easy and frequent access to golf? Buying property in Delray or East Boca and joining a country club separately seems even more expensive, by several multiples.
Any good golf communities that aren’t such a disaster?
No golf + forced membership = bad math for real estate. It has literally crushed every community they forced it into (Boca West, Boca Woods/Greens, Stonebridge, Boca Grove, Broken Sound). It didn't make much of a difference at Woodfield but that is also a higher price point as the other places offered small cheaper condos/townhouses. 1mm house in Woodfield + 75-100K club fee, not terrible but if it is a 100K condo and 75K club fee you can see the struggle.
Look into Boca Country Club. Club was owned by Boca Resort and Club (Pink Hotel) and they gave the place away to the city of Boca Raton for $1. City was thrilled, they got a nice club for free so they sold their former municipal course to a developer for 40 million or something crazy so they could build new homes.
So Boca Country Club is now a city course, access for everyone! That "might" bump the real estate higher because they don't have the club issue looming over their heads yet can still enjoy the club as a resident. I haven't been in there in 20+ years, the real estate was small courtyard townhouses from what I remember. It is close to I95 to jump 2 exits north to Atlantic Ave/beaches etc.
01-18-2022, 06:41 AM
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What bothers me on forced membership is the unending assault on your personal finances! The group decides to remodel the clubhouse and then expect you to pay for it!
This just happened at Mirasol in PBG. Clubhouse was 10 years old, they voted and narrowly approved (like less than 5% majority) a monster remodel/addition along with a $30,000,000 loan to pay for it! 30MM!!!!!!!
Here comes the killer, if the current clubhouse was too old/small/outdated then what is going to happen in 10 more years when they tell everyone they need to remodel it again and oh by the way the 30MM loan isn't paid off yet so we need a new loan to cover the old debt and the new debt.
90% of the current Mirasol members will not be alive when that loan is paid off. So we have boomers financing current remodels over 30 years yet history has already shown that the place gets outdated in 10. It can't work. Mirasol will soon have 20+ year old homes (that weren't great when new), a club saddled with debt and buyers will steer clear of it for fear o getting stuck with old homes that are depreciating and the titanic for a club!
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/...ub/7030081007/
40 million dollar remodel, 30 million dollar loan. 1170 homes = Bad Math
01-18-2022, 07:54 AM
Location: Gainesville, FL; formerly Weston, FL
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I agree with City Guy’s suggestion of finding a nice municipal course. Cheaper, gives you more options on where to live, and honestly, I think the clientele is generally younger.
01-18-2022, 09:34 AM
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Yikes, appreciate all of the insight on how bad these golf communities are, especially for real estate value. To be clear though, I am an avid golfer. Really looking for insight as to what is a great place for a young professional to have easy and often access to golf and still have proximity to a lively area like Delray Beach.
Last edited by FutureSnowbird; 01-18-2022 at 09:58 AM ..
01-18-2022, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
FutureSnowbird
Your missing the point.........the newest muni course for the city of Boca Raton was previously a members only course owned by the Boca Resort! So this time last year if you rented a room at the Boca Resort for $600 a night, they would let you play this course for likely $150 a round!
Now you can play the exact same course for probably closer to $100
https://www.bocamag.com/boca-country...e-in-takeover/
01-19-2022, 10:03 AM
Location: Gainesville, FL; formerly Weston, FL
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Since you mention Ft. Lauderdale, Coral Ridge Country Club is nice. The initiation fee is about $50k I think (might be higher now). I don't know what the annual dues are.
01-19-2022, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
wizrap
Since you mention Ft. Lauderdale, Coral Ridge Country Club is nice. The initiation fee is about $50k I think (might be higher now). I don't know what the annual dues are.
Awesome, appreciate it. I've started pivoting to Ft. Lauderdale the last couple days of searching in fact! Spoke with Coral Ridge and they have a lengthy waitlist for golf at the moment, if that's useful for anyone else reading this. Checking out some other CC's in the area - I think the move may be standalone condo/country club in Broward county. Appreciate all the insight.
04-24-2022, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
FutureSnowbird
Awesome, appreciate it. I've started pivoting to Ft. Lauderdale the last couple days of searching in fact! Spoke with Coral Ridge and they have a lengthy waitlist for golf at the moment, if that's useful for anyone else reading this. Checking out some other CC's in the area - I think the move may be standalone condo/country club in Broward county. Appreciate all the insight.
Where did you end up? I'm also looking to join a club in the area and am an avid golfer
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People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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