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I do not need your acceptance, nor do I seek anyone elses. I certainly do not need to be forced to accept anyone through laws designed to favor a certain group.
You say that people should be treated equally, that no one is more important that the next, yet you violate that premise by your comment that the employer must keep the gay person on the payroll, at the detriment of the other employees. You assume the ONE individual is worth more than the others. They must suffer our hypothetical business being bankrupted because the boss is forced to keep the gay guy, lest he be drawn-and-quartered by protectionist laws.
You cannot say we're all equal, then state that you support laws providing special rules for a particular group. Anti-discrimination laws are discriminatory by their very nature.
In some Utopia, there may not be discrimination. I our world it is everywhere, practiced by all. Funny thing is, relating to this thread, I spent time in Provincetown, Mass, and was denied entrance to a bar because I wasn't gay. How'd they know? I have a gaydar, they have a straightdar maybe. I didn't feel offended, I didn't decide to sue, I wasn't angry. I said "OK, it IS a gay town, and I'm the minority here". I went to the Governor Bradford and had my soda and still had a good time. I certainly didn't cry foul to the ACLU, and demand they admit me. No big deal. Life goes on.
I do not need your acceptance, nor do I seek anyone elses. I certainly do not need to be forced to accept anyone through laws designed to favor a certain group.
You say that people should be treated equally, that no one is more important that the next, yet you violate that premise by your comment that the employer must keep the gay person on the payroll, at the detriment of the other employees. You assume the ONE individual is worth more than the others. They must suffer our hypothetical business being bankrupted because the boss is forced to keep the gay guy, lest he be drawn-and-quartered by protectionist laws.
This was not my point at all! My point was that person shouldn't be fired just because he's homosexual, and how, even if the business isn't making money because of one gay employee, that owner can't legally fire him just because he's gay if he's an otherwise good employee. If you don't understand laws like that are in force to promote the equality of all people, I don't really know how else to explain it. But this whole hypothetical business thing is just going in circles, so I'm just going to let it go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound
You cannot say we're all equal, then state that you support laws providing special rules for a particular group. Anti-discrimination laws are discriminatory by their very nature.
A law that say Non-Discriminatory is discriminatory at the same time? I don't get it. And once again, I only support the laws because it's the only way we can fight for the rights of all people. I'm not some law-crazed person like you make me seem. Your exaggerations of my points are starting to get to me, please stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound
In some Utopia, there may not be discrimination. I our world it is everywhere, practiced by all.
Thus the point of the people being discriminated against fighting to stop it. They understand it stifles our species. I'm sorry you don't feel the same. You seem educated, nice, and like a good person - it's a shame you're okay with being treated unfairly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound
Funny thing is, relating to this thread, I spent time in Provincetown, Mass, and was denied entrance to a bar because I wasn't gay. How'd they know? I have a gaydar, they have a straightdar maybe. I didn't feel offended, I didn't decide to sue, I wasn't angry. I said "OK, it IS a gay town, and I'm the minority here". I went to the Governor Bradford and had my soda and still had a good time. I certainly didn't cry foul to the ACLU, and demand they admit me. No big deal. Life goes on.
I can understand not wanting to make a big deal about not being allowed admittance, but this is about equal rights in the workplace, not trying to get into a bar, so life did go on for you. However if you go into work tomorrow and your boss says your fired because you're atheist, it's a little more serious and your well-being might be in jeopardy. If you don't understand that, or don't believe me, either way I feel like I'm just repeating myself, and I can't explain it any different, so I'm going to stop for now.
The problem isn't an employee being fired if their homosexuality legitimately has a negative impact on an employers' business - a situation I find quite hard to believe. The problem is an employee being fired because of an employers' irrational, illogical, and unfounded fear of such an event happening. In order to prevent against the latter, the former must also be legislated against.
WRONG. There are NO Federal laws protection sexual orientation. Some states and municipalities have them, but at the Federal level, there are none--this is the crux of most gay-rights activism (or it was, until the marriage issue eclipsed it).
If I were fired tomorrow because my boss didn't like my religious views, I'm OK with that. As hard as you may find it to believe, I truly feel that the owner of that business should be free to do as he wishes. It is HIS business to run, I don't see where I (or anyone else) has the right to force him to keep me.
The reason I do not agree with Anti-Discrimination laws is simple. If a business owner discriminates SOLEY for personal views he is destined to fail. If the smartest and best pick is passed on, he will go to a competitor. Eventually the discriminating employer will find himself staffed with the dullards, as the competitor will have the top tier talent. It will only be a matter of time before he is forced out of business due to his discriminating. Forcing an employer to keep an employee, against the grain of sound business, is wrong. I contend that a savvy employer will take that into consideration when looking to hire any one of the "protected" groups. Why risk a lawsuit if you have to fire the person? Just don't hire them, and you do not assume that risk. In that manner, I feel these laws hurt, not help.
If I were fired tomorrow because my boss didn't like my religious views, I'm OK with that. As hard as you may find it to believe, I truly feel that the owner of that business should be free to do as he wishes. It is HIS business to run, I don't see where I (or anyone else) has the right to force him to keep me.
The reason I do not agree with Anti-Discrimination laws is simple. If a business owner discriminates SOLEY for personal views he is destined to fail. If the smartest and best pick is passed on, he will go to a competitor. Eventually the discriminating employer will find himself staffed with the dullards, as the competitor will have the top tier talent. It will only be a matter of time before he is forced out of business due to his discriminating. Forcing an employer to keep an employee, against the grain of sound business, is wrong. I contend that a savvy employer will take that into consideration when looking to hire any one of the "protected" groups. Why risk a lawsuit if you have to fire the person? Just don't hire them, and you do not assume that risk. In that manner, I feel these laws hurt, not help.
Well, I appreciate the time you've given me, reading and responding to my posts. It's great we can discuss something so controversial these days and stay civil at the same time. I see your point of view, and I hope you see mine too, but I think it's time we simply agree to disagree - if only to avoid running in circles. Take care, Hinton Bound!
I am a heterosexual and married man and hope the best for gays across the world. It is tough to deal with discrimination! Gay parades are the bomb! They are a beautiful display of human diversity. I have a best friend and a cousin who are gay, and have several other acquaintances too. Ironic that males will watch two females being sexual with each other. It is all over the porn sites. But if two guys are sexual it is "disgusting." Same goes for dancing. You can go into ANY dance club and see 2-3 women dancing sexually with each other. But you won't see any guy do that EVER, unless it is in a gay bar. That is called a double standard.
Just my two cents on this issue. I would be seriously upset for being fired for being gay. I would consider a lawsuit. It is a civil rights/liberty issue.
I will not be responding to hate filled posts or people harassing me.
Glad you are- selective hearing spares you much wear and tear.
Kind of strange that the same people so frightened of gays are drawn to this thread like a magnet. Common theme: Freedom isn't for everyone and they insist they're the only true americans. How bizarre.
That is what I enjoy about this thread so much. I don't necessarily have to deal with hate in my face, just like I do in real life. But at the same time I'm getting the message out there, whether they agree with me or not they know I'm here, gay and not going anywhere.
I'm also realizing that a lot of the people who hate gays and have so much insecurity are those generally from a low socioeconomic class, and generally older. Who will eventually die off, and be replaced by a more socially accepting generation. It's a process that is constantly occurring.
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Military repealing ban on "don't ask/don't tell?"
