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Are you suggesting that every part of the state faces the same issues and problems, and that the same solution will work for the entire state? I find that hard to comprehend. What is it you believe will fix the infrastructure problems in Mon County, the lack of valuing education in the southern tier, and the housing issues in the Eastern Panhandle all at the same time? I can't think of a single thing that would fit that bill.
I remember when the Northern Panhandle, which was at the time easily our state's most prosperous area, lost tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs in the early 1980s. State government did zero to help out with the situation. In fact, to this day they have done precious little there. We're not going to forget them in the analysis, are we? Much of the problem faced in West Virginia is related to national issues we have scant control over, and at least from my perspective, our state continues to try to put the cart before the horse in virtually every way. Clan mentality has virtually killed our state's potential since forever, and state government continues to virtually ignore the best possibilities while dumping resources into one economic black hole after another. The result is entirely predictable. We still tip the scales at #50 in most measurable areas, and those areas that are experiencing success are doing so in spite of the state organization, not because of it.
If you ask me for a magic solution for the entire state, my response is reduce the influence of state government, return most of the tax revenue to the originating counties, and find solutions on the local level. The examples of state government literally screwing every thing up are too many to cite here. If I could snap my fingers though, and come up with a solution for the issues in Lincoln, Wayne, McDowell, and so forth I'd say try to bring back all those call centers they moved to India and locate them there. Even with limited education, they ought to be able to handle that there. Either that, or have Jesco White open a clog dancing school there. Elkins needs some more wood industries ... not a new highway. Morgantown needs a new highway. Wheeling needs the state to stay out of the way so they can develop the oil and gas potential there. Martinsburg needs more affordable housing. Shepherdstown doesn't need much of anything. Buckhannon needs a resurgence of mining activity. I don't know what Charleston needs, but it isn't another Lottery Taj Mahal. Bringing back the Blossom Deli might help. South of Charleston, they need a total shift of paradigms. They need to re-invent themselves, but nobody can do that for them, they have to do it for themselves. Parkersburg is on the southern fringes of the Marcellus/Utica shale plays and might benefit from that. Huntington should continue to develop it's transportation center potential.
I love being in the mountains when it's raining. Standing in the stream with a pole in your hand and rain falling is something many people miss out on.
Is that something the state can exploit for great riches? No but it's priceless.
Yes, I totally agree. I will admit I like the peace and quiet in WV compared to the two other states I moved to. That's what drew me back.
I made a detailed post on another thread months ago that was similar to this asking what can be done to improve WV where I brought up our agriculture potential. (another poster mentioned this too on this thread) WV's main source of income before coal was farming. There isn't a lot of money in it, but with the interest in organic and humane farming, consumers have proved they will pay more. Even poor or less educated consumers don't want to feed their families food filled with antibiotics.
Being associated with organic farming can only help the state's image. It also may help with a few things many people here struggle with; There is nothing better for people's physical and mental well being than to be outdoors. It may help with the "most miserable state" problem.
I want to bring up our state's image in a separate post. It's going to be REALLY hard to change that. I don't want to offend anyone, but we can't hide from it either.
There were replies to this above MSN thread that are very pertinent to the OP's question. One poster on this MSN board suggested we invest in the computer field and we train people. Interestingly, another poster stated he came to WV with a tech company, they tried to do just that and it didn't work. He explains why. (hopefully there is no issue with me posting that content here - comments are in italics) As frustrating and as possibly offensive as it is, we need to listen to opinions like this and hopefully learn from it.
Florence McElroy Actually, Knowing what I know, the rates aren't bad. Lots of unemployment there, lack of education, skills for the modern jobs, and kind of srange, backward people as well. They need to build a huge computer plant, train people for the jobs, offer computer classes for all employees and family members, scholarships for computer education, and watch the OD rates drop. And soon W.V besides being beautifull, will become the place where computers rule. Close to the capital, but having that beautiful mountain mama vibe to it
Chris Gonzales Not going to happen. People in the tech world are not interested in W.V. I used to live there and it was a short period by my choice.. People are overwhelming racist and very backward on every societal issue. We literally had a revolving door of people (whites included) who would not stay past a year. If you ask why we did not train the locals well a large percentage of the locals came from generations of white trash from great grandma to today's generation who literally refused to learn. I worked with more than a few when I was down there who literally quit their jobs/training so they could collect welfare. It was really sad but they had no initiative and even made fun of the one guy who was getting ahead. Literally from a group of over hundred there was only three who graduated and this was paid training.Now that plant is closed and let me tell you no one is interested in opening up another plant with the same local talent. Again their biggest problem is their lack of initiative which stops them from gaining skills for today's market.
I feel sorry for the one out of hundred but you know you got to have a better average than that and this was before the lastest drug epedemic. Drugs and moonshine have been a problem in this area for a long while.
Are you suggesting that every part of the state faces the same issues and problems, and that the same solution will work for the entire state? I find that hard to comprehend. What is it you believe will fix the infrastructure problems in Mon County, the lack of valuing education in the southern tier, and the housing issues in the Eastern Panhandle all at the same time? I can't think of a single thing that would fit that bill.
I remember when the Northern Panhandle, which was at the time easily our state's most prosperous area, lost tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs in the early 1980s. State government did zero to help out with the situation. In fact, to this day they have done precious little there. We're not going to forget them in the analysis, are we? Much of the problem faced in West Virginia is related to national issues we have scant control over, and at least from my perspective, our state continues to try to put the cart before the horse in virtually every way. Clan mentality has virtually killed our state's potential since forever, and state government continues to virtually ignore the best possibilities while dumping resources into one economic black hole after another. The result is entirely predictable. We still tip the scales at #50 in most measurable areas, and those areas that are experiencing success are doing so in spite of the state organization, not because of it.
If you ask me for a magic solution for the entire state, my response is reduce the influence of state government, return most of the tax revenue to the originating counties, and find solutions on the local level. The examples of state government literally screwing every thing up are too many to cite here. If I could snap my fingers though, and come up with a solution for the issues in Lincoln, Wayne, McDowell, and so forth I'd say try to bring back all those call centers they moved to India and locate them there. Even with limited education, they ought to be able to handle that there. Either that, or have Jesco White open a clog dancing school there. Elkins needs some more wood industries ... not a new highway. Morgantown needs a new highway. Wheeling needs the state to stay out of the way so they can develop the oil and gas potential there. Martinsburg needs more affordable housing. Shepherdstown doesn't need much of anything. Buckhannon needs a resurgence of mining activity. I don't know what Charleston needs, but it isn't another Lottery Taj Mahal. Bringing back the Blossom Deli might help. South of Charleston, they need a total shift of paradigms. They need to re-invent themselves, but nobody can do that for them, they have to do it for themselves. Parkersburg is on the southern fringes of the Marcellus/Utica shale plays and might benefit from that. Huntington should continue to develop it's transportation center potential.
The Northern Panhandle lost tens of thousands of jobs in the 1980s due to the collapse of the steel industry. What was the state government supposed to do- Alter global market dynamics? That's a pretty tall order considering they struggle to even pass a budget. Heavy manufacturing places like Wheeling, Cleveland, Youngstown, Pittsburgh, etc suffered greatly during the 1980s and unfortunately all of these locations are still losing population. New jobs and industry have been slow to enter the market and even fracking which many sought to stop the decline is in fact in a state of decline itself. A large number of those jobs have already disappeared and unless there is a major increase in the price of crude oil, I wouldn't expect that to change. While I admit there is considerable ineptitude across many state government functions, but the global economy is the largest factor here. The state of West Virginia can't tell China to stop producing steel, or OPEC to lower oil production so prices skyrocket again.
'Clan mentality' has indeed hurt West Virginia but the constant notion that the state government is biased towards Southern West Virginia is absurd. Many of the counties south of Charleston are in dire economic situations and the poverty is among the worst in America. If the state government is pumping tons of money that Morgantown or Wheeling or Martinsburg somehow deserve more, I am not seeing it!
The Northern Panhandle lost tens of thousands of jobs in the 1980s due to the collapse of the steel industry. What was the state government supposed to do- Alter global market dynamics? That's a pretty tall order considering they struggle to even pass a budget. Heavy manufacturing places like Wheeling, Cleveland, Youngstown, Pittsburgh, etc suffered greatly during the 1980s and unfortunately all of these locations are still losing population. New jobs and industry have been slow to enter the market and even fracking which many sought to stop the decline is in fact in a state of decline itself. A large number of those jobs have already disappeared and unless there is a major increase in the price of crude oil, I wouldn't expect that to change. While I admit there is considerable ineptitude across many state government functions, but the global economy is the largest factor here. The state of West Virginia can't tell China to stop producing steel, or OPEC to lower oil production so prices skyrocket again.
'Clan mentality' has indeed hurt West Virginia but the constant notion that the state government is biased towards Southern West Virginia is absurd. Many of the counties south of Charleston are in dire economic situations and the poverty is among the worst in America. If the state government is pumping tons of money that Morgantown or Wheeling or Martinsburg somehow deserve more, I am not seeing it!
Just wanted to comment that even though I am from Morgantown I recognize the problems in the areas below Charleston that you accurately state and I wish sometimes we could send some of our growth down there. This won't be a popular sentiment with the nice people whose opinions I value on the Morgantown board but we have TOO much growth in too small of an area. This is not just my opinion. There are housing developments that are going up EVERYWHERE. Many are cheap, slapped together and combined with the fact there is no zoning they are being put in areas that don't have proper roads, infrastructure, drainage, etc.
To those in areas with little growth, well some of the growth we are experiencing is so haphazard that it can be described as "Be careful what you wish for!"
I know many posters on CD think Morgantown and it's economic development is the be all and end all but this is a link to a protest of some of this unregulated growth and people's dissatisfaction with it. https://www.change.org/p/earl-tombli...-west-virginia No one can understand why the developers aren't being forced to absorb some of these infrastructure costs. That's not a state problem - it could be fixed locally right now.
There are over 800 comments from current and former residents of Morgantown. Many more people than post here. Just wanted to give another POV that I don't hear a lot on this board but is very popular among residents.
Last edited by motownnative; 05-13-2017 at 01:13 PM..
Indeed... you have been supporting one area as much as anybody. The meat of NCWV runs Monongalia, Marion, Harrison. Those 3 counties have close to 200,000 residents alone (combined), and geographically (again combined) they are about the same size as Kanawha. Just because Mon County borders PA, does not mean it is any less relevant than any other county. Cabell borders Ohio and Kentucky, and nobody would suggest it is a fringe area due to that. I'm not supporting just our county. I'm suggesting that expanding I-68 would have a bigger impact than Corridor H. It is within the proximity of the bulk of the population of NCWV. The fringe areas ... Barbour, etc. are much smaller in size. If you go south of Bridgeport/Anmoore, there is scant population until you go 130 miles to the fringe areas of Charleston. Buckhannon and Elkins together have around 34,000 total, spread out, and they are already connected to I-79.
If you are talking about growing areas ... right now there are only two. The Eastern Panhandle and NCWV. Even Putnam County lost a small amount of population with the most recent estimates, and until recently, that was the only southern tier county to have gains. But since you are talking about finding ways to make all parts of the state grow. My contention is it will take infrastructure in the northern and eastern areas, and a shift of paradigms in the southern areas. There is no one size fits all solution. We really have 5 little states in one here in West Virginia, and the needs of the various areas are vastly different from one another. I'm sorry if you believe it sophomoric to have a different opinion than your own, but if you just want people to agree with you, why would you posit the question?
Yes, many of West Virginia's population and economic centers are in very close proximity to it's borders.
The Northern Panhandle lost tens of thousands of jobs in the 1980s due to the collapse of the steel industry. What was the state government supposed to do- Alter global market dynamics? That's a pretty tall order considering they struggle to even pass a budget. Heavy manufacturing places like Wheeling, Cleveland, Youngstown, Pittsburgh, etc suffered greatly during the 1980s and unfortunately all of these locations are still losing population. New jobs and industry have been slow to enter the market and even fracking which many sought to stop the decline is in fact in a state of decline itself. A large number of those jobs have already disappeared and unless there is a major increase in the price of crude oil, I wouldn't expect that to change. While I admit there is considerable ineptitude across many state government functions, but the global economy is the largest factor here. The state of West Virginia can't tell China to stop producing steel, or OPEC to lower oil production so prices skyrocket again.
'Clan mentality' has indeed hurt West Virginia but the constant notion that the state government is biased towards Southern West Virginia is absurd. Many of the counties south of Charleston are in dire economic situations and the poverty is among the worst in America. If the state government is pumping tons of money that Morgantown or Wheeling or Martinsburg somehow deserve more, I am not seeing it!
You probably haven't been paying attention to recent announcements. The current folks running things want to spend $2.4 billion on highway projects, almost all of it in the southern tier in areas where there is no shortage of roads to handle the current traffic load while we are choking on traffic in Morgantown. Their answer is to give us less than 1% of that money. They want to spend almost $60 million on a road in Lincoln County that is basically 20 miles from the nearest civilization, to an abandoned strip mine that has only a National Guard readiness center promised as a development. That's just for starters, but I don't want to start any arguments here.
You are correct that "global" wealthy elitist open borders cheap labor policies destroyed our heavy industry, but our state government managed to find a way to make things even worse in the NP instead of doing anything to help out. They did less than zero. Both the gas and the coal will eventually be brought out of the ground, don't worry about that. It is owned by the wealthy who dominate both political parties, and it will be used when it benefits them to use it. Propaganda to the contrary is false. Follow the money... always follow the money. My own opinion is, unfortunately, the coal will be used when they have the UMWA on life support.
Yes, I totally agree. I will admit I like the peace and quiet in WV compared to the two other states I moved to. That's what drew me back.
I made a detailed post on another thread months ago that was similar to this asking what can be done to improve WV where I brought up our agriculture potential. (another poster mentioned this too on this thread) WV's main source of income before coal was farming. There isn't a lot of money in it, but with the interest in organic and humane farming, consumers have proved they will pay more. Even poor or less educated consumers don't want to feed their families food filled with antibiotics.
Being associated with organic farming can only help the state's image. It also may help with a few things many people here struggle with; There is nothing better for people's physical and mental well being than to be outdoors. It may help with the "most miserable state" problem.
Nice post. I agree. Unfortunately many think Wall Street and the economy are interchangeable. That the only way you have a good economy is if Wall Street is doing good.
Many of our problems are because of that. Such as the opiod problem that was accelerated by the large pharmaceutical companies.
'Clan mentality' has indeed hurt West Virginia but the constant notion that the state government is biased towards Southern West Virginia is absurd. Many of the counties south of Charleston are in dire economic situations and the poverty is among the worst in America. If the state government is pumping tons of money that Morgantown or Wheeling or Martinsburg somehow deserve more, I am not seeing it!
The problem with state government is not that it favors any part of the state, it's that everything they do is about them. We are supposed to refrain from politics here and that is probably good so I'll not expand on that here.
Nice post. I agree. Unfortunately many think Wall Street and the economy are interchangeable. That the only way you have a good economy is if Wall Street is doing good.
Many of our problems are because of that. Such as the opiod problem that was accelerated by the large pharmaceutical companies.
Thanks. I think here in WV we can fix a lot of problems ourselves. Just find things that work for us and things will fall into place regardless of what is happening in the rest of the country. I really feel the answer to our problems is internal and that is where any fix will have to come from. We can't wait for companies to locate here and "save" us. More likely we will just get taken advantage of as we have so many times in the past.
The OP asked how we can get ourselves off the "dead last" lists. None of us have all of the answers, but there is one area I can think of, (though there are probably more) that has turned around completely in WV. It's small for some, but for me personally it shows the resolve of people in all 55 counties of this state.
This may not be directly related to the economy but it does have to do with "changing mindsets" which are a connecting issue. About 15 years ago WV had some of the worst animal cruelty laws in the nation. Animal torture even was a misdemeanor. We were ranked 48th or 49th in the nation. It was stupid and people couldn't take it anymore. Well, as of 2016 we are now ranked #7. We are in the top tier in the nation. That is amazing. In animal welfare circles nationwide we are cited as an example of improvement that seems almost miraculous.
As someone who was involved with petitions, etc., at that time to finally get felony cruelty laws, I just want to note this gives me hope. By any estimation, laws in this area are considered "progressive". I may bump up and elaborate on a pet thread that was started that would be on topic for this (though I may stain my deck today as it finally quit raining! LOL) Just wanted to touch on this here as I don't think many in the state are aware of this. This is an example of where we can "fix" ourselves and address our own problems.
I was amazed at the outpouring of support for this in our state. At that time, I would be in poor rural areas where many people didn't appear to have 2 dimes to rub together (and yes, many were missing teeth and were dressed terrible) and they would want to donate what they could even though they probably couldn't afford it and asked for extra petitions to take and distribute. That experience taught me to be careful about stereotyping anyone. This wasn't that long ago but it was before Facebook and many didn't have access to the internet anyway. Kind of ironic that one of the most progressive laws in the state was pushed with a lot of help from a bunch of "hillbillies" and "rednecks" Honestly, the more "backward" seeming disadvantaged counties would run out of petitions before anyone else and ask for more.
So, whenever I get down about WV, (we do have to face we have issues that ARE bleak) I think about this turn around and all the people from every walk of life and socioeconomic background who cared and helped make a difference. This isn't a "feel good" thing to say, it's what I really saw happen.
If anyone is interested, here are articles about our rankings. It's nice to see us not "dead last" and an example to other states for once. More so as this is about an issue not many people ever expected to see progress in (btw Kentucky - a state we get grouped in with a lot is ranked 50th - at least it's not us!)
Last edited by motownnative; 05-14-2017 at 11:08 AM..
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Honestly, the more "backward" seeming disadvantaged counties would run out of petitions before anyone else and ask for more. 
