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Old 03-13-2019, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Martinsburg, West Virginia
1,170 posts, read 1,915,679 times
Reputation: 509

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
He wasn't talking about the Eastern Panhandle.
I know. I'm saying by turning the thread into an EP success story, some may see that as bashing other parts of the state that aren't as successful.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:06 PM
 
10,111 posts, read 12,753,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmccul View Post
I know. I'm saying by turning the thread into an EP success story, some may see that as bashing other parts of the state that aren't as successful.
If you're referring to me, my intent was not to turn it into an EP success story, but to correct movein's erroneous statement about West Virginia's largest "metro" area. The DC/Balto "metro" is at least 15 times larger than any other "metro" currently associated with our state, but folks from the southern part of the state routinely miss that fact, perhaps due to limited exposure to the northern and eastern areas?

The real issue here is the danger associated with HIV. All areas of the state have drug use issues, just as with other places in the country. Health officials here in Mon County are expressing concerns because this cluster has developed. It must be contained before it becomes a more universal issue.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:40 PM
 
778 posts, read 526,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmccul View Post
Nobody is taking shots at other parts of the state or showing superiority, in my opinion. We're just stating facts by detailing why the EP is an economic leader and will continue to be so in WV, much like Morgantown. If that is a touchy subject for some, my apologies.

I wasn't expecting to derail the thread by simply replying to a post I (and others) disagreed with, but here we are.

That being said, I would like to get back to the original topic of the thread.


I would quibble with this wording. The EP is not an economic leader of the state. It has more in common with Putnam County than it does Morgantown or Charleston. It is a bedroom community. Everyone shops up the road in Maryland and those that do not shop down the road in Virginia. If those two destinations do not fill the need, they travel towards Washington D.C. to shop or do business. The EP will be the last area in that region to grow and develop but even then it is going to be a bedroom and not an economic success.

It has taken Putnam County 30 years to grow into something of economic success and still falls well short of such places as Charleston, Huntington or Morgantown. Everyone that lives in Putnam County shops in Ona. Some go to Charleston but not many. The EP is going to be the same way. Putnam in 1970-1980 was much like the EP is today and the EP is just as many years behind even what Putnam County has achieved.

I am not knocking the EP, I actually like it a lot. But it is what it is and the best it can be is another Putnam County. Eventually an equilibrium will occur and things will cool off, just like it has in Putnam County. The EP is not going to get the one thing it needs to make it boom - direct major roads all the way to D.C.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:33 PM
 
10,111 posts, read 12,753,385 times
Reputation: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
I would quibble with this wording. The EP is not an economic leader of the state. It has more in common with Putnam County than it does Morgantown or Charleston. It is a bedroom community. Everyone shops up the road in Maryland and those that do not shop down the road in Virginia. If those two destinations do not fill the need, they travel towards Washington D.C. to shop or do business. The EP will be the last area in that region to grow and develop but even then it is going to be a bedroom and not an economic success.

It has taken Putnam County 30 years to grow into something of economic success and still falls well short of such places as Charleston, Huntington or Morgantown. Everyone that lives in Putnam County shops in Ona. Some go to Charleston but not many. The EP is going to be the same way. Putnam in 1970-1980 was much like the EP is today and the EP is just as many years behind even what Putnam County has achieved.

I am not knocking the EP, I actually like it a lot. But it is what it is and the best it can be is another Putnam County. Eventually an equilibrium will occur and things will cool off, just like it has in Putnam County. The EP is not going to get the one thing it needs to make it boom - direct major roads all the way to D.C.
I agree with this. That said, there is definitely an influence curve that goes along with being a population center and the EP is headed for having that in spades. That bedroom community has residents who vote in the jurisdiction in which they go to sleep at night. That fact will add to the region's influence going forward even though it doesn't reflect the relative economic situation. Each of our state's regions is unique unto itself. Morgantown, for example, does not serve as our region's wholesale distribution center in our region as Charleston does in it's region. We are much too close to Pittsburgh for that to happen here. The $14.6 billion in GDP economic activity that goes on here every year includes comparatively little in the way of wholesale activity.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Martinsburg, West Virginia
1,170 posts, read 1,915,679 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
If you're referring to me, my intent was not to turn it into an EP success story, but to correct movein's erroneous statement about West Virginia's largest "metro" area. The DC/Balto "metro" is at least 15 times larger than any other "metro" currently associated with our state, but folks from the southern part of the state routinely miss that fact, perhaps due to limited exposure to the northern and eastern areas?

The real issue here is the danger associated with HIV. All areas of the state have drug use issues, just as with other places in the country. Health officials here in Mon County are expressing concerns because this cluster has developed. It must be contained before it becomes a more universal issue.
No, you're fine CTMountaineer. I was referring to myself actually.

I got the drift that some were viewing me sharing viewpoints similar to yours as touting the EP as better than elsewhere.

Back to HIV...
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Martinsburg, West Virginia
1,170 posts, read 1,915,679 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
I would quibble with this wording. The EP is not an economic leader of the state. It has more in common with Putnam County than it does Morgantown or Charleston. It is a bedroom community. Everyone shops up the road in Maryland and those that do not shop down the road in Virginia. If those two destinations do not fill the need, they travel towards Washington D.C. to shop or do business. The EP will be the last area in that region to grow and develop but even then it is going to be a bedroom and not an economic success.

It has taken Putnam County 30 years to grow into something of economic success and still falls well short of such places as Charleston, Huntington or Morgantown. Everyone that lives in Putnam County shops in Ona. Some go to Charleston but not many. The EP is going to be the same way. Putnam in 1970-1980 was much like the EP is today and the EP is just as many years behind even what Putnam County has achieved.

I am not knocking the EP, I actually like it a lot. But it is what it is and the best it can be is another Putnam County. Eventually an equilibrium will occur and things will cool off, just like it has in Putnam County. The EP is not going to get the one thing it needs to make it boom - direct major roads all the way to D.C.
Yes, but don't property taxes and other services contribute a lot? Procter & Gamble and others hiring thousands as we speak? Saying that the EP is not an economic success and leader just doesn't add up in my mind.

https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news...013eb5f3e.html

https://www.journal-news.net/news/lo...0345c9913.html



I appreciate the discussion and your organized responses, Caden.

I vote that we all take this conversation to an EP thread and let's keep this thread for the HIV cluster. I've started one since this conversation has gained a lot of unexpected steam:

//www.city-data.com/forum/west-...le-growth.html

Last edited by mmccul; 03-15-2019 at 09:19 AM..
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:56 PM
 
778 posts, read 526,614 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmccul View Post
Yes, but don't property taxes and other services contribute a lot? Procter & Gamble and others hiring thousands as we speak? Saying that the EP is not an economic success and leader just doesn't add up in my mind.

https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news...013eb5f3e.html

https://www.journal-news.net/news/lo...0345c9913.html



I appreciate the discussion and your organized responses, Caden.

I vote that we all take this conversation to an EP thread and let's keep this thread for the HIV cluster. I've started one since this conversation has gained a lot of unexpected steam:

//www.city-data.com/forum/west-...le-growth.html

I am so sorry to have participated in a divergence but you did ask so nicely and I will my reply briefly before also adding to the thread for the HIV issue.


I did not mean that the EP did not have something special going on. IT DOES! The other 52 counties should be so lucky to have what the three in in the EP have happening to them! Of course it is an economic success, it is the standout in West Virginia only rivaled by the Morgantown metro.


But, perhaps you are correct. We should define terms. When I think of an area that is classed as an economic leader, I am referring to a center for business and commerce, especially commercial retail and perhaps most importantly, destination entertainment. A region that can meet it is own subsistence has economic success; it has grocery stores, strip malls, fast food outlets of many brands etc, but all of that is just the basics, designed to cater to the needs of the locals, even those that commute to far off places. But, in my thinking, that is not an area to be classified as an economic success. Of course in many places in West Virginia count a Gino's, Save-A-Lot, Family Dollar and a Go Mart as the vital retail area of downtown, what we see in the EP is a metropolis by comparison.


The EP, specifically Martinsburg, has all of the infrastructure to be such an economic leader, the problem is that it is late to the party and finds itself at best 4th on the list for development. Fredericksburg, Hagerstown and Winchester all have multi-decades head start. That is very meaningful. A good regional EP governance would not try to beat those three areas at that game, but instead to be the best bedroom they can be. This comes down to taxes and stable property values that have comparatively predictable valuation growth rate.


In time, all of the assets will come into the EP just for the sake of convenience and the felling of; "What's to do? We have been to here and here and here, lets skip the drive and stay in town." (Martinsburg)

The curse is drugs for the area and it is being tackled but not well, I do not think.


The problem with the HIV cluster in Huntington exist because we have all told to be tolerant and understanding. It is the politically correct culture.


Be kind...


Be understanding...


Be accepting...


Do not be judgmental...


Do not disagree with the mantra of the socially liberal society...


Do not do anything...


Needle exchange programs, housing for the people on the meekest of means, social programs for those in needs, cater not to the needs of people as we intend for them to do, but rather they feed the lazy side of humanity that comes to find these efforts an entitlement.


It is my experience that those truly in need seldom get the right help, at the right time, if they can get any help at all. But, social politics appoint who can benefit and who cannot and it is not allowed that any us of not affected by the various plagues on our neighborhoods should have any voice.


I have hit on my thoughts on similar issues in the past and liken such problems to keeping a clean house. How long does your house stay clean if you do not maintain if after daily use? How soon is it before you have a insect invasion? How long before any food cooked there leaves you feeling a bit on the ill side? How long is it before your last visitor is your last visitor? How long is it before the value of your home plummets? How long is it before you want to get out and start over in some place nice?


In another way, think of leaving a strongly scented cherry pie sitting on a table on the porch. How long before it is crawling with every insect in the area? If we create entitlements for people we would not want to have as our neighbors, the fault lies with us.


The cure is not to be more understanding but to be more ethical and moral. We need to raise standards, not lower them under threat of social excision for having a different opinion on right and wrong. We have confused personal freedom for community acceptance. I suppose it is the nature of the generations raised on cell phones discussing their most intimate aspects of their lives at high volume in any setting populated by strangers. How dare we have an opinion as we hear the details of someone's life at full vocal.


In our quest to be more enlightened we have become less moral and less ethical. We have been told there is no right or wrong, just differences and that we must accept them. Society has lost its structure.


College towns tends to be on the forefront of such issues because they are a breeding ground for rebellious ideas and they should be. But that acceptance should not extend to the greater community and in Huntington and many other places like it, it does. This is not a new thing, radical youth. It is the time to be radical. What has changed is that the radical youth of yester year never grew up and matured. They now set the tome on act is a sort of social police threatening social excommunication if we do not toe the ever-tightening list of social limitations.


Huntington will not solve its problem as long as the long term residents do not demand a new level of expectation.


Charleston decided to end the needle exchange program and the affect on downtown has been D R A M A T I C ! All sorts of issues that existed during that programs lifespan are now all but gone. Town Center is no longer harassed by junkies, wondering like zombies down the sidewalk. Cops no longer respond to a man or woman laying in the street outside the Marriott, on the verge of an over dose. There are far fewer homeless encampments in the city core and I only know of one and it is well off from down town along the river in a hard to see or reach area.


Huntington needs a governance that will raise the bar of the police and both need to hard backing of the citizens to wipe out the flop houses, needle exchange programs, and other dubious social set ups. Put the people in jail when found under any influence and prosecute to the maximum of the law. Right now, pot smokers driving down the street are smoking so heavily it looks like their cars need a ring job.


A community has to say, these people will not change, let them die or live, but it is up to them, not us. If we find them we jail them, not understand them. If they survive, we cheer and do our best to support their effort for a better life. If they die we take no notice and pity no one involved.


Life is harsh. Life requires effort. We have been brow-beaten to make it comfortable and effortless for those among us that make bad choices. We need to stop being understanding, forgiving, accepting and most of all, quiet.


When we can do that, there will be no HIV clusters. But, it is up to us that have made the right choices, to encourage others to make those same choices and let them know we DO judge them when they don't.
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