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Old 03-21-2019, 08:57 AM
 
10,109 posts, read 12,762,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Not being a big city is not a problem for everyone.
You could make a point, and be correct in doing so, that a school that only has 200 students will result in lots of personal attention for a student. That doesn't mean it is smart for state government to keep throwing money at it when it distracts from the overall mission of providing quality education. Nothing against all those little teachers colleges, but most of them are relics of past times. At the very least, Glenville needs to be retired, and Bluefield and Concord merged (they are just 11 miles apart).

Shepherd and West Liberty provide higher education presences in comparatively remote parts of the state. Fairmont State has good support and is self sufficient. West Virginia State seems to be making a comeback of sorts. Long term, those schools will probably make it.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
500 posts, read 457,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
You could make a point, and be correct in doing so, that a school that only has 200 students will result in lots of personal attention for a student. That doesn't mean it is smart for state government to keep throwing money at it when it distracts from the overall mission of providing quality education. Nothing against all those little teachers colleges, but most of them are relics of past times. At the very least, Glenville needs to be retired, and Bluefield and Concord merged (they are just 11 miles apart).

Shepherd and West Liberty provide higher education presences in comparatively remote parts of the state. Fairmont State has good support and is self sufficient. West Virginia State seems to be making a comeback of sorts. Long term, those schools will probably make it.
Agreed.

Enrollment at WV's 13 public colleges:

WVU: 28,409
- WVU-Parkersburg: 4,292
- WVU-Tech: 1,623
- WVU-Potomac St: 1,340
Marshall: 13,246
WVSU: 3,879
Fairmont St.: 3,809
Shepherd: 3,736
West Liberty: 2,443
Concord: 2,194
Glenville State: 1,672
Bluefield State: 1,379
WV DO: 841

Now, enrollment doesn't tell you everything, but it does give a glimpse into what the school can offer. WVU seems to be pretty successful in utilizing their satellite campuses and reviving the left-for-dead WVU Tech by moving it to a much better location and facilities in Beckley. The DO school is a specialized college and really doesn't fit in with the rest of the list but I included it anyway.

The three schools that stick out, as previously mentioned, are Bluefield, Glenville, and Concord. These three have incredibly low enrollment and are fairly low-ranked colleges.

Glenville is located literally in the middle of nowhere in one of WV's least populated counties. There's nothing that Glenville offers that nearby public colleges WVU-P or Fairmont can't offer. Shutting down Glenville would allow more funding to go to other universities like WVU-P or Fairmont which could hire quality professors from Glenville that folks like pknopp's daughter may have grown attached to. This school is literally on life-support, it's time to pull the plug.

As CT said, Bluefield and Concord are extremely close to each other. Bluefield is in a small town with another college (albeit in another state). Bluefield was also created as an HBCU. However, it now has an 80% white student population. It's not even doing what it was originally intended to do and has therefore outlived it's usefulness. Either merge the two or close both and funnel more money into also fairly close WVU-Tech.

And in doing so, maybe this would also assist some of the private colleges in gaining enrollment or convince them to shut down as well.

Consolidation has been happening for the last 30 years in almost all of WV's high schools. It needs to happen in some of our universities as well
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:10 AM
 
79,573 posts, read 35,855,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
You could make a point, and be correct in doing so, that a school that only has 200 students will result in lots of personal attention for a student. That doesn't mean it is smart for state government to keep throwing money at it when it distracts from the overall mission of providing quality education.
Those going there are getting a quality education.

Maybe it's time to quit paying people millions of dollars to be a coach.

Maybe it's time to look to the NFL to kick in some money for their farm system.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:24 AM
 
1,794 posts, read 1,611,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Those going there are getting a quality education.

Maybe it's time to quit paying people millions of dollars to be a coach.

Maybe it's time to look to the NFL to kick in some money for their farm system.
Well in WVU's case the AD department is more than self sufficient, so the AD and the boosters pay those salaries without taking away money from the education side of the university. Plus the AD pays for hundreds of scholarships.


https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Last edited by WVUmatt; 03-21-2019 at 11:33 AM..
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:33 AM
 
79,573 posts, read 35,855,055 times
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Originally Posted by WVUmatt View Post
Well in WVU's case the AD department is more than self sufficient, so the AD and the boosters pay those salaries without taking away money from the education side of the university. Plus the AD pays for hundreds of scholarships.
Maybe it's time for the NFL to fund it's farm system and "self sufficient" is not how we should look at education.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:52 AM
 
1,794 posts, read 1,611,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Maybe it's time for the NFL to fund it's farm system and "self sufficient" is not how we should look at education.
I never said education should be self sufficient, my comment was that the athletic department is self sufficient so it is not detracting from the education side like you implied above.

As for Glenville, if the state ends up deciding to close it or other small public colleges, maybe the state can look into the possibility of turning them into private colleges over a set amount of years instead of just pulling the plug (if deemed viable). I highly doubt anything will happen in the next couple years though as long as the state budget doesn't completely collapse again.

There is a place and a need for a large university in the state and a medium university in the state and maybe a small university in the state and community colleges and small colleges and private colleges. The problem is, how many small universities, community colleges and small colleges do we need in a state with a shrinking population. That is the question the state needs to start thinking about though. I don't have the answer but it is something to ponder. I think inevitably there will be some closures/consolidations in the higher education sector in this state, just like what is currently going on in the medical sector in the state.

Last edited by WVUmatt; 03-21-2019 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
500 posts, read 457,572 times
Reputation: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Those going there are getting a quality education.

Maybe it's time to quit paying people millions of dollars to be a coach.

Maybe it's time to look to the NFL to kick in some money for their farm system.

Of all the arguments you could have made, this is one of the worst. As Matt said, the AD is self-sufficient. They bring in their own money. No state money pays for the AD. How much they pay their coaches does not make a difference in the quality of education. I honestly don't know what you have against WVU but they have done 1,000x more for the state of WV in research, money, education, and prestige than Glenville State ever has
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:00 PM
 
79,573 posts, read 35,855,055 times
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Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
Of all the arguments you could have made, this is one of the worst. As Matt said, the AD is self-sufficient. They bring in their own money. No state money pays for the AD. How much they pay their coaches does not make a difference in the quality of education. I honestly don't know what you have against WVU but they have done 1,000x more for the state of WV in research, money, education, and prestige than Glenville State ever has
It shouldn't be "their money".

My argument is a big picture argument and hardly simply just about one school.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:21 PM
 
1,794 posts, read 1,611,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It shouldn't be "their money".

My argument is a big picture argument and hardly simply just about one school.
Lol then who's should it be? If an AD is able to turn a profit with their own money (money coming from TV rights, ticket sales, etc...) then why shouldn't it stay with that AD?

Not to mention with "their money" these athletic departments pay millions of dollars in scholarships to the education side of a university/college (a lot of these kids would not be in college without these scholarships). Some schools even have it set up where a certain percentage of an AD's profit is paid to the education/research side of a university/college each year (pretty good idea to be honest).

Also believe it or not, many schools will tell you that after a large win in either basketball or football (mainly football), admissions will see a spike in applications. While I think it is dumb to base your future education on the success of a sports program for one fleeting moment, some people do think it is a good idea.

For the record since I mentioned it above:

WVU's AD spent $11 million on scholarships last year (that is money paid to the education side)
Marshall's AD spent $7.5 million on scholarships last year (that is money paid to the education side)
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:32 PM
 
79,573 posts, read 35,855,055 times
Reputation: 16137
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUmatt View Post
Lol then who's should it be? If an AD is able to turn a profit with their own money (money coming from TV rights, ticket sales, etc...) then why shouldn't it stay with that AD?
None of it happens without the association with the college. A coach shouldn't be worth many, many times more than an economic professor.

Quote:
Not to mention with "their money" these athletic departments pay millions of dollars in scholarships to the education side of a university/college (a lot of these kids would not be in college without these scholarships). Some schools even have it set up where a certain percentage of an AD's profit is paid to the education/research side of a university/college each year (pretty good idea to be honest).
Also, if an athlete wastes the scholarship they should be on the hook for the costs. Just the same if an athlete gets hurt the college should still be on the hook.

If you leave before graduating the costs should be reimbursed by the NFL if that is the reason you leave.

Quote:
Also believe it or not, many schools will tell you that after a large win in either basketball or football (mainly football), admissions will see a spike in applications. While I think it is dumb to base your future education on the success of a sports program for one fleeting moment, some people do think it is a good idea.

For the record since I mentioned it above:

WVU's AD spent $11 million on scholarships last year (that is money paid to the education side)
Marshall's AD spent $7.5 million on scholarships last year (that is money paid to the education side)
Good.
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