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Old 03-22-2019, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
500 posts, read 457,031 times
Reputation: 296

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I'm not one to be insulting but pknopp's opinions are utter garbage.
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:49 AM
 
79,571 posts, read 35,823,981 times
Reputation: 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
I'm not one to be insulting but pknopp's opinions are utter garbage.
So why not address them? It's easy to simply dismiss things as you did. Why should a football coach in college get paid $7 million dollars and then have to be paid to leave?

How would the education needs of the students be hurt if this money was spread around instead?

An assistant is worth $1 million but an Economics professor is only worth a fraction of that?

(WVU does not pay this much just to make sure my argument is understood as a bigger picture argument)

If in the need to stay at least a little on topic, we can use the numbers WVU pays. As an addition to that, how were the students advanced with the mess that was the Rich Rod fiasco?

Why should my tax money go to provide a farm system for the NFL?
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
500 posts, read 457,031 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So why not address them? It's easy to simply dismiss things as you did. Why should a football coach in college get paid $7 million dollars and then have to be paid to leave?

How would the education needs of the students be hurt if this money was spread around instead?

An assistant is worth $1 million but an Economics professor is only worth a fraction of that?

(WVU does not pay this much just to make sure my argument is understood as a bigger picture argument)

If in the need to stay at least a little on topic, we can use the numbers WVU pays. As an addition to that, how were the students advanced with the mess that was the Rich Rod fiasco?

Why should my tax money go to provide a farm system for the NFL?
Coaches are paid that much because we live in a capitalist society and it's what the market demands. It's simple supply and demand. The university has made a determination that the revenue, visibility, etc. that it receives as a result of that coach being employed there outweighs his salary. Same for the assistants. That's why Nick Saban makes $7 million a year because he brings in 100k people into a stadium for a game, brings in tens of millions in TV revenue, brings in tens of millions in donations to the university (both to the AD and the school), and brings in prestige to the university and additional students by the exposure through remaining nationally relevant. How many professors can say the same? And I did previously address your ridiculous comments where I stated:

"As Matt said, the AD is self-sufficient. They bring in their own money. No state money pays for the AD. How much they pay their coaches does not make a difference in the quality of education. I honestly don't know what you have against WVU but they have done 1,000x more for the state of WV in research, money, education, and prestige than Glenville State ever has"

You chose to ignore them. Why doesn't a professor make as much? Because the university has decided that they do not get the return on investment. And professors that do bring in money to the university (i.e. through research or other means), get paid more. My wife formerly worked for a higher up in the pharmacy school. He brings in $350k annually and his wife, another professor, brings in an additional $250k+. He does fairly well for himself. Another thing you don't see with professor's salaries is that the one's that do research typically add in money for themselves to their grant proposals. So a professor may get paid $150k annually, but have more money coming into them from outside sources.

I'd also recommend reading this article from Forbes that completely kills any argument that you ever had regarding this topic and the wikipedia page below. It even has a name, The Flutie Effect:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbswork.../#4bb919c76e96

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutie_effect

Last edited by 304eer; 03-22-2019 at 10:47 AM..
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:38 AM
 
1,794 posts, read 1,610,778 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So why not address them? It's easy to simply dismiss things as you did. Why should a football coach in college get paid $7 million dollars and then have to be paid to leave?

How would the education needs of the students be hurt if this money was spread around instead?

An assistant is worth $1 million but an Economics professor is only worth a fraction of that?

(WVU does not pay this much just to make sure my argument is understood as a bigger picture argument)

If in the need to stay at least a little on topic, we can use the numbers WVU pays. As an addition to that, how were the students advanced with the mess that was the Rich Rod fiasco?

Why should my tax money go to provide a farm system for the NFL?
The money would not be there if there was no coach (because then there would be no team). It is not that hard to understand that fact. I do think the salaries have gotten way out of hand, but that is the market dictating that now. You could go out an hire a coach for $100,000 but you'll probably get a guy who can't hack it at the next level which will cost you major money or the guy is successful and someone else willing to offer a good salary would hire him away in a heartbeat. (as a side note, I'm assuming with the 7 Million dollar mark you are talking about Nick Saban?)


For about the 30th time in this thread your tax dollars do not support WVU's athletic department (other than the approximately $100,000 to the rifle team, which honestly WVU could and should be picking up the bill for). If you live in a city with an NFL team though you could make the argument that your taxes are subsidizing the NFL (look at Pittsburgh with the extra sales tax to pay for their stadium).


I don't know how many times or ways I and how many others can explain it and show you that your tax dollars and that education dollars do not go to WVU's football team or athletic department (again except for the rifle team). It is self funded and the money it makes goes towards salaries, scholarships, improvements and other projects. Plus the tax revenue produced off of the program existing (sales tax, hotel tax, income tax for the employees, etc...) probably pays a large amount into the states general budget (which means some of that tax money goes to all levels of education), county budgets and local city budgets. Also like with all colleges, the football and basketball programs are the ones who make the money to subsidize all of the other sports and all of their scholarships.


Also the Rich Rod thing, other than WVU not wanting to provide better facilities at that time, how was WVU at fault for that mess. Also how were the students harmed by that mess? The students were not harmed nor was anything advanced from that mess. It is what it has always been, just a big mess.


We have gotten so far off from the original story and from the first comments about what the state will need to do regarding education funding to its bloated higher education system. You came in saying you wanted WVU to close if a school had to be closed, which was . If you said the same thing about MU, it would have been . I am just going to leave this conversation because it has gotten pointless and it is going around in circles. Nothing will get accomplished from this and it is getting more bizarre by the hour.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
5,258 posts, read 8,461,487 times
Reputation: 3691
Sorry to hear about this. I have family that went to Wheeling Jesuit and loved it. Similar situations are popping up for small liberal arts colleges everywhere. My alma mater just cut whole programs like music and deaf studies (one of their traditional calling cards.) These schools need to find a new business model, and I don't pretend to have any answers.

I have been pretty clear to my kids that mommy and daddy will gladly pay to send you to an Ivy league school, or to go the community college -> transfer route. We aren't keen on paying for the type of school we went to, the $$ value isn't there for what you get in return.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
500 posts, read 457,031 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUmatt View Post
The money would not be there if there was no coach (because then there would be no team). It is not that hard to understand that fact. I do think the salaries have gotten way out of hand, but that is the market dictating that now. You could go out an hire a coach for $100,000 but you'll probably get a guy who can't hack it at the next level which will cost you major money or the guy is successful and someone else willing to offer a good salary would hire him away in a heartbeat. (as a side note, I'm assuming with the 7 Million dollar mark you are talking about Nick Saban?)


For about the 30th time in this thread your tax dollars do not support WVU's athletic department (other than the approximately $100,000 to the rifle team, which honestly WVU could and should be picking up the bill for). If you live in a city with an NFL team though you could make the argument that your taxes are subsidizing the NFL (look at Pittsburgh with the extra sales tax to pay for their stadium).


I don't know how many times or ways I and how many others can explain it and show you that your tax dollars and that education dollars do not go to WVU's football team or athletic department (again except for the rifle team). It is self funded and the money it makes goes towards salaries, scholarships, improvements and other projects. Plus the tax revenue produced off of the program existing (sales tax, hotel tax, income tax for the employees, etc...) probably pays a large amount into the states general budget (which means some of that tax money goes to all levels of education), county budgets and local city budgets. Also like with all colleges, the football and basketball programs are the ones who make the money to subsidize all of the other sports and all of their scholarships.


Also the Rich Rod thing, other than WVU not wanting to provide better facilities at that time, how was WVU at fault for that mess. Also how were the students harmed by that mess? The students were not harmed nor was anything advanced from that mess. It is what it has always been, just a big mess.


We have gotten so far off from the original story and from the first comments about what the state will need to do regarding education funding to its bloated higher education system. You came in saying you wanted WVU to close if a school had to be closed, which was . If you said the same thing about MU, it would have been . I am just going to leave this conversation because it has gotten pointless and it is going around in circles. Nothing will get accomplished from this and it is getting more bizarre by the hour.
Exactly. Back to the original topic. These schools as someone else mentioned, Wheeling Jesuit and otherwise, were established when it was difficult to travel from one place to another. Therefore, most people who wanted to receive higher education, just went to their local college (see remote colleges like Glenville, Davis & Elkins, AB, Concord, Pot St., etc.). Wheeling Jesuit's situation isn't unique and we will see more and more of these situations and colleges can't stay sustainable. The public ones at least have the backing of the state. Private schools don't have that luxury.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:44 AM
 
79,571 posts, read 35,823,981 times
Reputation: 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
Coaches are paid that much because we live in a capitalist society and it's what the market demands. It's simple supply and demand. The university has made a determination that the revenue, visibility, etc. that it receives as a result of that coach being employed there outweighs his salary. Same for the assistants. That's why Nick Saban makes $7 million a year because he brings in 100k people into a stadium for a game, brings in tens of millions in TV revenue, brings in tens of millions in donations to the university (both to the AD and the school), and brings in prestige to the university and additional students by the exposure through remaining nationally relevant. How many professors can say the same? And I did previously address your ridiculous comments where I stated:
We are not a Capitalist society. We are at best a Quasi-Capitalist society and in reality a Socialist-Capitalist society. While that is off topic, this entire thread shows that as we are arguing over how much the state should provide the institutions.

In a purely Capitalist society, it provides none.

Quote:
"As Matt said, the AD is self-sufficient. They bring in their own money. No state money pays for the AD. How much they pay their coaches does not make a difference in the quality of education. I honestly don't know what you have against WVU but they have done 1,000x more for the state of WV in research, money, education, and prestige than Glenville State ever has"
I thought I would pursue your post as I appreciate the effort but if you don't want to reply in an honest manner, I have no desire to.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:46 AM
 
79,571 posts, read 35,823,981 times
Reputation: 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUmatt View Post
The money would not be there if there was no coach (because then there would be no team).
Same. I was quite clear that I was not arguing to an end to a college's sports program. Does it not lead you think about your positions when to counter mine you have to continue to argue things you know I've already addressed and not argued for?
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
500 posts, read 457,031 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
We are not a Capitalist society. We are at best a Quasi-Capitalist society and in reality a Socialist-Capitalist society. While that is off topic, this entire thread shows that as we are arguing over how much the state should provide the institutions.

In a purely Capitalist society, it provides none.



I thought I would pursue your post as I appreciate the effort but if you don't want to reply in an honest manner, I have no desire to.
So you ignore everything in my post because I proved you wrong?

Give me a ****ing break
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:50 PM
 
79,571 posts, read 35,823,981 times
Reputation: 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
So you ignore everything in my post because I proved you wrong?

Give me a ****ing break
You have to address what I actually say to prove me wrong. I have been clear as can be that I have nothing against WVU.
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