environmentalists and coal can work it out?

[David Kennedy]

Senartor Rockefeller crafted some expert legislation a few years ago to help West Virginia EXPORTS...at the time, we did not have exports other than the people from the state leaving for jobs..

That legislation has been a great boon to his coal companies and at the present time 40% of the coal mined in Wv goes over seas.
This will increase significantly as anti-coal legislation begins to happen with the Obama regeime...

Almost as if it were planned out several years ago..He also has the ties to Japan and the Kyoto Protocol that would favor China at our cost...I've always wondered if one of his foundations crafted that world wide plan...

We are watching the money system change...like spending the 'Big Bucks while they have some worth..

People all over the world are hoarding gold...not much mentioned of this...I think in about 6 months we will see if the 'Bail Out has gone to the crooks or to some proper use...If it gets very little Press, It will have gone to the crooks. Bush is right for stalling this...applaude him for that..

[vec101]

Originally Posted by Zea mays

No. I have no grudge against WV. It is a very pretty state. I simply think that coal has no future in our energy plans.

Everyone wants clean air and clean water. Coal accounts for 50-60% of the electric generated in the US. There is no current technology that can better provide for the needs of Americans. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - instead look to ways to improve what we have.

The basic attraction of coal is its low cost and abundance, especially at a time when our nation is in the throes of an economic crisis. Electricity produced at coal plants is less than one-third the cost of electricity that comes from power plants fueled with natural gas. And the United States has a 250-year supply of coal, with reserves that are the largest in the world. ... overall U.S. coal emissions since 1970 have been cut in half, even as coal-based electricity production has tripled. ... The coal industry's goal is to cut emissions virtually to zero while improving plant efficiency. West Virginia Coal Association - Coal an Important Power Source (http://www.wvcoal.com/index.php/Coal-an-important-power-source.html - broken link)

Coal is the redheaded stepchild of the American energy business. Yes, coal is dirtier than the other fossil fuels. Yes, it pollutes the air and emits more carbon dioxide per unit of energy than oil or natural gas. And of course, coal mining is a dirty business that scars the earth.

But the U.S. has a surfeit of coal. On a percentage basis, the U.S. has more coal than Saudi Arabia has oil. The U.S. sits atop some 242 billion tons of coal, about 28.6 percent of the world’s coal. At current rates of extraction, the U.S. supply could last 234 years. Saudi Arabia, meanwhile, sits astride a mere 21.3 percent of the world’s oil, and at current rates of extraction will run out in about 69 years.

Over the coming decade, the North American Electric Reliability Council expects demand to continue growing, with the U.S. needing an additional 135,000 megawatts of new generation capacity. ... the U.S. is facing a generating capacity shortfall of some 58,000 MW. ... sources like solar and wind are unlikely to be more than niche players in the overall electricity mix in the coming decades for a simple reason: they are incurably intermittent. Barring a major breakthrough in largescale electricity storage technology, solar plants and wind turbines will have to be paired with conventional power plants to ensure reliable electric power to consumers. And those conventional sources are natural gas, nuclear, and coal.

West Virginia Coal Association - If Not Coal, Then What? (http://www.wvcoal.com/index.php/If-Not-Coal-Then-What.html - broken link)

[David Kennedy]

Wood is here in abundance...a little smokey but so what?...Expect eventual 'Green laws to prevent its use...health hazard to the old folks and a major air polutant.

Look for that mini-nuke power plant crafted by the English...It's here!

[vec101]

One reason I am so touchy about the "great coal debate" is because of our miners (in WV and other states). Those men are doing physically grueling and dangerous work, especially those in the deep mines. Do you know many.. any... people who are willing to do the work they do?

Think of what they go through to provide the US with electric and what do they get in return? People do not respect them, people look down on them, people point their fingers at their industry and condemn it. People do not appreciate them.

Every time we turn on our computers or flip a light switch, we should give a thanks to the coal miners.

It takes one pound of coal to produce 1.25 kilowatt hours of electricity, enough to light one 100 watt lightbulb for 10 hours.
• A typical computer spread with internet access requires about 1,000 watts of power.
• A lump of coal is burned every time a book is orderedon-line.[/
• It takes about a pound of coal to create, package,store and move 2 megabytes of data.
• The average internet user (12 hours per week) uses over 300 pounds of coal annually for this purpose
• The total demand for electricity from personal computerson the internet amounts to 8% of the U.S. electricalsupply
• When one billion people are accessing the internet is projected, the required electricity will be equal to total current capacity of U.S. electric power production
http://www.wvcoal.com/docs/coalfacts_07.pdf

[harborlady]

Amen vec! I don't forget one minute that these guys are putting their lives on the line so my world turns reliably. While coal (like any other form of energy) does have down sides, it takes more than an idealistic plan to deliver USA's energy needs. It takes extensive research and massive infusions of $$$ throughout USA to change over infrastructure at a time when economically consumers are least able to absorb those costs. Legislating wishful thinking or the snap of the fingers won't make it so. Bridging that gap is the work that needs doing.

As things stand right now the whole USA power grid is aging and reaching maximum limits of service (as per statistics from NREL & Cspan energy meeting between power suppliers and interstate governors). Advances in technology aren't plug and play at this point. With growth and demand increasing, even if new technology came online it would serve to keep up with demand, coal consumption leveling out at current rate effect rather than demand double production. Coal going overseas- same thing. Materials demand china has been driving up prices for everything with her economy alone, not to mention other emerging markets trying to lift themselves out of poverty and participate in global free market.

Environmentalists- I understand your point, and you're correct about many things. However, without any other means to deliver, without any other means for people to lift themselves up economically, you're asking people to give up the bread on their table & their kids college education so that the rest of the world can have gravy. You need to see how unreasonable that is, and go about solving the worlds collective problems in a way that replaces one industry for another, creates jobs vs subtracting them. A way that retrains the people who work hard for a decent wage to have an alternative decent wage. Not a walmart job. Not welfare as this country has known it. Not decimate a state economy for another states raised standard of living.