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Old 10-20-2008, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
15,123 posts, read 17,508,597 times
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After all this 'ballyhoo' about Obama's tax plan being socialist, blah, blah, I decided to take a little trip down memory lane via google. Found on the IRS website is an interesting find- a summary of taxable rates on the lowest earners and the highest earners from 1913-2002.

The report makes it very clear that it is difficult to ascertain a 'true' rate due in large part to the various exemptions, credits and other such items that ebbed and flowed over the course of time as well as the extra taxes like the WWII 'Victory Tax' etc..
Quote:
While changes in rates are always interesting to note, they should not be viewed independently of other changes in law.
http://www.irs.treas.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

The table is found on pages 4 and 5.

Although this really can't be considered as an accurate measurement of the effective tax rate (due to the complex credits and codes not being factored in), it does seem to illustrate, at least it does to me, that the assertion that Obama's views are 'socialist' due to his 'wealth redistribution' plan is plain old bunk and b*ll****, especially if this information is taken into view as a baseline to judgeth.

It certainly appears that over the long haul, the US tax system has been generally more favorable to the lower tax brackets than the upper end, and only until recent times, say mid 80's, was it revamped and tilted downward on the upper end (Which if we kiddies are to take note is about when Reagonomics and trickle down theory kicked in and our deficit began to balloon like 3 day old tick on my hound dog).

If anything, this data is certainly interesting to look at (if you're a geek like me that is).

Last edited by Threerun; 10-20-2008 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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I'm for the fair tax.
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
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I'd love a fair tax. It just depends on one's definition of what 'fair' is, I guess.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:19 PM
 
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From the political perspective they are all fair...it's the load that gives meaning...Jews revolted on King David when the Temple Tax went over 60%...seems like the magic number...

Romans held the levy at 55%...kept the peace and the standing armies to collect them...has pretty well been a maximum amount ever since when republics graced the Earth...

Churches and Kingdoms made up their own tax laws...all of them were 'fair taxes too...

Brian's people almost revolted in Ireland with the 'boru...(cow tax...he was taking to many, so it seems to never end...)
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
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After reading those tax rates in the early part of last century, it's no wonder Al Capone didn't want to contribute to the US Govt coffers
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Old 10-23-2008, 03:04 PM
 
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DK nobody is a fan of taxes. I'm all for less taxes and willingly accept reduced services as fair & reasonable. The past 7 yrs I've been taxed at a socialist level with no benefits/services of socialism, all the while accruing national debt exponentially. Annoyed during clinton yr taxes? 1. it was less than bush sr or jr for me, 2. The national debt was being paid in earnest and we had that to show for it. What do I have to show for the insane taxation level I paid the past 7yrs? All the trillions worth of coffins for Iraq money could buy. Arlington is employed digging holes for our youth.

Three You see the reaganomics fiscal liberalism pig in a poke for what it is? I listen to McCain/Palin go on about Obama's 'redistribution of wealth' as a 'government give away'-- what a perversion of facts.

The redistribution of wealth already happened 28 yrs ago by gov't favoring commerce to the extreme tune of hail hail reaganomics. One colossal shell game passing the buck/ borrowing from paul to pay peter/ hocking the family jewels. Bush Sr years phase 2- Endorse downsizing and outsourcing internationally, all the while middle class jobs/ wages/ bennies shrinking & ceo wages soaring upwards to 500%.

Present tense, when 95% would be getting a tax refund it's characterized as a 'welfare handout' (because Obama is offering), but when McCain gives a refund to exxon or the top 5% it's characterized as 'returning what's rightfully theirs' (even when they've already compensated themselves for the tax with raised prices)? Why can't everyone see the epic proportion of conniving BS perpetrated in a single statement?

The new mantra-- Joe the Plumber--- owes $1,200 in back taxes from republican tax structure (and is irate towards dems about it!?) -- what could be a better mascot of the republican party delusion fed to the masses? Convince this schnook to worship his vampire. I have no idea what makes half the country blind to it, but somebody has to slap some sense and wake them up. "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu is not required reading in schools, but it definitely needs to be. Joe the plumber will never own that plumbing business because he isn't bright enough to know what bit him or what made his real dinner possible all along.

Palin & bipartisan orchestra brought home the bacon to her state by going against everything repubs claim to be about. Who hates a welfare state? Easy money to be had in alaska-- only thing you need to do to qualify is to breathe and they'll send you two checks, but that's not a government giveaway? She did this by imposing higher taxes on oil corporations, who don't actually pay taxes- they merely pass on the 'cost of doing business' (including raises for themselves) onto everyone else. One two punch- the state of alaska gets how much federal subsidy $$$ per capita relative to WV?

The lower 48 pays alaska twice, once at the pump (during an energy crisis), and again in federal pork. How can this be sincerely justified in light of alaska's long time established industries prospering vs rust belt and appalachia? It's sick and sad and these ridiculous shell game scams with taxes have to end once and for all.

No, I'm not PO'd at alaska doing well for itself, but rather, having the nerve to be a beggar to congress & senate when struggling states (some still a disaster area) are chronically troubled with floundering economic development. Mother of all sweetheart deals and people want her in the white house? Alaskas approval rating for Palin has already taken a 20 point dump.

When drug addiction treatment programs will be under funded this year for WV & the region, I'd rather get pro active about it. We should give jailed WV the option of a freebie life and airmail them directly to alaska. Maybe not even touch down- just shove them out with parachutes made in china on Palins lawn. I'll bet we could get hinton to work for peanuts out of retirement. See how much we'd save on court costs for transient drug populations from detroit and alabama. Alaska reportedly has such a surplus in their coffers without a personal income tax, they don't have to say no to any program suggested unless they're in a bad mood. Come on Mark!
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Old 10-24-2008, 05:05 AM
 
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I missed the road to Alaska years ago...when we abandonded Portland (unemployment was 40%) and headed home to Wv...has always been a regret to not live 'above the line and fish regularly there...each time we leave Portland International Airport and see the I-5 junction I get that same yearning to head North...to late now, the bones would not take that bitter cold...

Sara Palin has that Pacific Nortwest ruggedness that those women show...bright, resourseful and very independant..

It's a virture I saw with them in general...

It's clean and open...non- un- abused...and western, for sure...
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:53 PM
 
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I hope you live a long life so you can see the misery fools like you are causing. And before you start slamming Alaska you should get your facts straight. Are you a leader in ACORN? Crawl back in your hole you fool commie.
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
15,123 posts, read 17,508,597 times
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Uh- I'm a registered Republican dimwit. I'm simply posting a table of what 'was and is' and comparing it to this election cycle.

And in case you didn't know, the Earned Income Credit (EIC) was a Reagan era change that did, in effect, redistribute a little wealth to the lower brackets. Problem is the tax breaks for the upper end also escalated out of locks step. But I guess you already knew that, Tavarisch. That's Russian for Comrade, in case you don't know.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:50 PM
 
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I wasn't talking to you. The EIC was a small part, what about 401K? The fact of the matter is; tax burden for all people is lower for ALL people under Bush then under Clinton.
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