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Old 12-21-2008, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Charleston, WV
3,106 posts, read 7,363,081 times
Reputation: 845

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Boy, wouldn't that su**ck if your electric went out for an extended period due to an ice storm, etc. and your car wouldn't run cuz you couldn't charge it -- tough to try to get to a shelter with electric. Guess everyone would need to keep generators on hand.
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Old 12-21-2008, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,400 posts, read 46,396,388 times
Reputation: 19524
Quote:
Originally Posted by vec101 View Post
Now for the good news (except it was written this past summer):

Worldwide Energy Demand Will Rise 51 Percent by 2030, Energy Department Report Says

Despite persistently high oil prices, global energy demand will grow by 50 percent over the next two decades with continued heavy reliance on environmentally troublesome fossil fuels, especially coal and oil, the government predicted Wednesday. ......... The report forecast the steepest increases in China and other emerging economies ............ Worldwide Energy Demand Will Rise 51 Percent by 2030, Energy Department Report Says - FOXNews.com Transition Tracker (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/06/25/worldwide-energy-demand-rise-percent-energy-department-report-says/ - broken link)
I wouldn't say rapidly increasing electricity consumption is a good thing at all. In fact, we all need to find ways to become more energy efficient.
Many businesses are also realizing that energy efficiency= big cost savings.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:43 AM
 
638 posts, read 1,846,602 times
Reputation: 218
If anyone really wanted to delimit the use of coal in this country, they would start by killing one of the sacred cows, urban sprawl -- if they're not willing to bulldoze this unnatural state of consumption, then it's just noise coming out of their mouths.




I'm against mountaintop removal, can't sell me on it, but the mining companies have stated a valid point : "We can't mine it fast enough."

The average suburbs of anywhere will shrug their shoulders about West Virginia being expensed on their behalf because they can't be in favor of delimiting consumption when they're commuting 1/2hr or more one way to employment centers, living in a 2000+sqft house, with street lights lining all the roads, etc.

Most people aren't up to slaying one sacred cow, let alone the herd. When it comes to consumption, we care about China as much as most people in this country care about West Virginia. The willingness to expense China's environment is evident.

http://nasadaacs.eos.nasa.gov/articles/images/2006_ozone_china.jpg (broken link)
NASA Earth Science Data and Services: On the trail of global pollution drift (http://nasadaacs.eos.nasa.gov/articles/2006/2006_ozone.html - broken link)
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:48 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 13,294,077 times
Reputation: 1090
I don't feel guilty about using energy..I pay for what I use...my work and living demand certain usage of many products. I refuse to set myself at a lower or slower pace of output because someone somewhere is having a guilt trip about 'saving the whales or using energy...

If it was practicle for the world leaders to ration energy they would be doing that...in a market system the user is the payer and I'm for that...If I wanted to run my business in the congo, I would move there...as such I'm here...I see oporutinities here too and intend to make a profit from them...If I use more energy in that pursuit I will ask the power company to send me a bill...they will make a profit and I will too...

and Urban Sprawl: Being done in Mon and Preston counties now...To stop the advance and cost of public water and sewer...and to keep the people in the cities...doing that keeps the money from dwellers more central. Almost impossible to deed a few acres of the old farm to the grandson...look into it...it's a suppression of Property Rights and all legal.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,400 posts, read 46,396,388 times
Reputation: 19524
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
I don't feel guilty about using energy..I pay for what I use...my work and living demand certain usage of many products. I refuse to set myself at a lower or slower pace of output because someone somewhere is having a guilt trip about 'saving the whales or using energy...

.

It feels good to use less electricity, and not be very reliant on the old coal plant that is only 15 miles from your house. I use the Watt O Meter device to figure out which appliances are draining electricity when they are not being used. The passive solar construction of my house also cuts by use of propane due to the wall of glass windows capturing a lot of solar insolation at low angles during the winter- even at my 43.5N location.
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:36 AM
 
638 posts, read 1,846,602 times
Reputation: 218
Mr. Kennedy, you're entitled to your views of consumption. Though I don't subscribe to them, we have some common ground regarding skeptism, as we are listening to "save the world" songs from people who live in 2000+sqft homes, i.e., Al Gore . . 10,000sqft, Hollywood (Wall-E, The Happening, Day The Earth Stood Still, etc.). Perception is a fascinating thing; people like that are given esteem for environmental concerns, when those actually choosing to live more humble are labeled nuts.

I don't subscribe to guilt either; it's a useless emotion.

There's a lot of reasons for the petri dish growing, and I'll look into your note about deeding estates as one of them.

In the end, all I can really do is address my own hypocricy, one holy cow at a time.
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Old 12-22-2008, 06:59 PM
 
4,714 posts, read 13,294,077 times
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For the 37 years I've lived on this farm, the gas well 300' from my house has vented its gas into the atmosphere for that entire length of time...this fall we harnessed that energy to heat the home...It's free and doing a good job so far...that change has reduced our domestic energy consumption...Someone else can have the killowats that we are not using now...

And to really get real about electrical energy consumption? Computers and businesses...those big old Walmart, Target and Sears and manufactoring plants are the real users of power...people are an innocent by-product...

These are eco mantras that haunt us...nothing more.

Edison's light bulb put Rockefellers gas lights out of business...now the eco-freaks want us to live in the darkness...and they call is being progressive...ha ha ha.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:58 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,757,212 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorpus View Post
HL, not only is it unfair to give the coal states a chance to other economic bases, it demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the electric power industry.

Surfing around this evening, I came across a very useful site: the Energy Information Administration. In particular, I was looking at their short term outlook (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ - broken link) page, which has tons of data for 2007, 2008 and 2009. In 2008, for example, we generated about 11.3 billion KwH of electricity per day. Of that 11.3 BKwH:
5.46 came from coal
2.20 came from nuclear
2.18 came from natural (mostly) and other gases
0.94 came from renewables of all kinds, including hydro, solar, wind, wood and geothermal. (Hydro was about 75% of that.)

So about 2.5% of our electricity supply currently comes from (non-hydro) "green" sources. Growth of those sources might be enough to keep up, barely, with population growth, but I see little chance to displace existing coal/nuclear/gas power plants.

And if plug-in electric vehicles really work...
Unfair to give coal states a chance at other economic bases? You oppose economic diversity? That statement isn't rational.

The rest we already agreed on long ago (a demonstrated lack of knowledge? ) Honestly snorp laugh with me here because it's part of america's divided problem. Growth demand worldwide energy alone is enough reason to justify coals future for at least as long as it takes technology & infrastructure to expand. Coal has made very smart decisions to follow diversity patterns but there isn't a guarantee.

Considering the commentary in this thread I think I'd be more productive with another batch of christmas cookies. Folks have to be willing to hear without presumption and I still don't see that happening.
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Old 12-23-2008, 04:21 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 13,294,077 times
Reputation: 1090
The solution is before us...natural gas and hydro-electric power.

The eco-freaks wanted the dam system on the Columbia River removed for the fish...there are NO salmon runs and have'nt been for years...We will not see a large scale damming of West Virginia because of the steep terrain...and hydro is proven..cheap and dependable...low impact hydro dams could be built....done in other countries but not here.

What we will use is natural gas...the race is on to provide it...
It will be costly and that is an issue...new energy sources must be painful to the pocketbook..that keeps the people contained...If they do not have extra money, they must stay in one place.

Sidebar comment: Recent survey: Would you move for another job? Most said no this time around.
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Old 12-23-2008, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,619 posts, read 22,502,117 times
Reputation: 24627
I sure as hell moved for another job. Single income family w/2 kids? Damn right I'll jump if the new position has greater security, better pay and better bennies.
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