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Old 06-23-2009, 03:40 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 12,814,644 times
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Up here in NorCenWv, mining is underground and not as noticable...
Each miner job generates 7/8 other related or non-related jobs..from support industries to teachers in our schools.

Lot to lose here.

Why don't we let the stack scrubbers work 24 hours per day if air quality is the real issue?
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:56 AM
 
128 posts, read 427,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
Up here in NorCenWv, mining is underground and not as noticable...
Each miner job generates 7/8 other related or non-related jobs..from support industries to teachers in our schools.

Lot to lose here.

Why don't we let the stack scrubbers work 24 hours per day if air quality is the real issue?
How much money would the teachers have lost if the coal companies didn't have to pay severance taxes, like they just filed that lawsuit to do, a couple years ago? You thik the coal companies would have pumped 500 million into the state, on their own, because they are good corporate citizens?

And, again, there's only about 10,000 "miners" left (that's real underground, miners, plus the truck drivers on the strip mines). Their effect on WV's economy is constantly overblown, by the industry, and the government owned by the industry. Like I said, we've lost hundreds of thousands of miners in the last 35 years. 10,000 more wouldn't even be noticed.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:08 AM
 
191 posts, read 780,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IveHadEnough View Post
I guess it's ok to be an "outsider" and take all the value out of WV, as long as you throw a few truck drivers some jobs, eh? ...

Oh, and you are so concerned about the economic perils to the last 10,000 people left "mining" coal in wv? Where was your concern for the "economic peril" of the miners the last 35 years as automation put HUNDREDS of thousands of miners out of work in WV?
These are some really uninformed quotes. Many professional and industrial jobs in Beckley providing $40,000-250,000 come from mining - not just "a few truck drivers." If you actually lived in Southern WV you would know that. Or would you just like us all to make 7 dollars an hour?

Also just citing "10,000 people left mining coal" is just as misleading and uniformed. You obviously know nothing of the good paying industrial jobs that support the 10,000 miners (do you even know if that number is correct?). These jobs probably number 25,000 to 50,000 (my guesstimate) statewide. So now that is possibly as many as 60,000 jobs with living wages in a state that really needs them. So much for your "10,000 people" number.

Finally, as far as the economic peril of miners due to automation in the last 35 years, I don't see what your point is. Do you think people should still mine coal with a pick and shovel? Automation has made their work safer. It wasn't 35 years ago - the coal industry mechanized between 1945 and 1955. The left a smaller number of well paid miners rather than 100,000 somewhat impoverished miners. (The people that lost their mining jobs in the early 50s in Central Appalachia generally went to Ohio and Michigan.) It has been said that John L. Lewis wanted it that way. Why fault the coal industry for automation? Every other industry has done this. I have seen GE plants in Ohio and car plants in Indiana and steel mills in Pennsylvania, and they all use automation. So why single out the coal industry for it, like it's a crime?
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Cottageville, West Virginia
175 posts, read 545,183 times
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Too bad West Virginia doesn't have the same policy regarding coal as Alaska has regarding oil. Each and every resident of Alaska receives a monetary share of every drop of oil that is pumped from the state. If that were happening here folks would be lined up 10 deep around any mining site that was a target for protesters. I hope these protests are not long lived......West Virginia coal miners have a long history of taking the hard line when it comes to their jobs...when they decide enough is enough this might not all end well for Ms. Hannah and the modern day hippies!!
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Charleston, WV
3,106 posts, read 7,120,374 times
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James Hansen, Daryl Hannah, and about 30 other mountaintop removal mining opponents were arrested after they blocked State Route 3 near a Massey Energy subsidiary's coal processing plant.

They marched to the plant and attempted to enter the property. They were blocked by several hundred coal miners chanting "Massey."



Wonder if they wanted to be arrested or thought they were too good and could do what they wanted to do?
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:40 PM
 
128 posts, read 427,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italianbluesboy View Post
These are some really uninformed quotes. Many professional and industrial jobs in Beckley providing $40,000-250,000 come from mining - not just "a few truck drivers." If you actually lived in Southern WV you would know that. Or would you just like us all to make 7 dollars an hour?

Also just citing "10,000 people left mining coal" is just as misleading and uniformed. You obviously know nothing of the good paying industrial jobs that support the 10,000 miners (do you even know if that number is correct?). These jobs probably number 25,000 to 50,000 (my guesstimate) statewide. So now that is possibly as many as 60,000 jobs with living wages in a state that really needs them. So much for your "10,000 people" number.
Your "guesstimate?" My guesstimate is your guesstimate is much too high. There's only about 10,000 miners left in WV, that's a fact the coal companies use. The "spinoff" jobs they always tout, always seem to come from the ether.

And for your information, I DO live in Southern WV, and my grandfather and many of my cousins and uncles worked in the mines and a few still do. Most have lost their jobs in the mines, however. So, I'm as qualified to talk about this issue, as anyone. But, I'm glad you mentioned southern WV. It is a big part of the problem. Do I need to start listing the steady stream of politicians from down there who are convicted felons, or are well on their way to being convicted felons? Those clowns, totally in the pockets of the coal industry, are a BIG part of why WV is dead last and considered a joke by most of the country.

Quote:
Finally, as far as the economic peril of miners due to automation in the last 35 years, I don't see what your point is. Do you think people should still mine coal with a pick and shovel? Automation has made their work safer.
And yet, Governor Underwood forgave how many hundreds of millions of dollars in UNPAID workers comp premiums from the coal companies? Safer? Yeah, but when someone gets hurt, the coal companies don't pay their fair share anyway, so what difference does it make? Hell, the guy who just bought the Greenbrier, had racked up 20 million dollars in workers comp unpaid premiums in his coal companies in the 80's and 90's. He paid 2 mill and was let off. Yeah, the coal companies are REAL concerned about safety.

Do you also want to talk about the supercredit boondoggle given to coal companies that cost the state hundreds of millions over the years?

I can go on and on.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Charleston, WV
3,106 posts, read 7,120,374 times
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Obama & Pelosi are pushing for the House to vote on Cap & Trade by the end of this week.

Obama's Cabinet members are traveling across the US this week to get support for Cap & Trade.

My, my - what a coincidence that Hansen was protesting at a mine this week.

U.S. House Leaders Schedule Climate-Change Bill Vote (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:20 PM
 
4,714 posts, read 12,814,644 times
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Please don't forget Gov. Arch Moore...and Buffalo Creek...Gave those poor people down there a 'Proper Hosin'.

and if you are wanting to protest?

Why not do it at the Coal Company Owners offices...Mr. MoJo has his on McCorkle Ave in Charleston and Mr. Rocky has his on Capitol Hill in DC....these elite direct those at the mine site..

follow the money...this has nothing to do about enviroment...if it did, we would have saved a whale by now!
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:42 PM
 
191 posts, read 780,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IveHadEnough View Post
Like I said, we've lost hundreds of thousands of miners in the last 35 years. 10,000 more wouldn't even be noticed.
This is probably the most arrogant and clueless thing I've ever ready on CDF, and it shows your utter contempt for your Southern West Virginia neighbors and their livelihoods. If that's all you think of your fellow Southern West Virginians then I don't think anyone would miss you if you left. I mean if you hate the coal industry then why stay in WV? If you hate Hindu then do you live in India?

I drive around town and see the people at Mining Controls Inc. and
Austin Powders and Superior Highwall Miner putting food on their table for their families. Then some know-it all like you who has no respect for the fact that they get up at 6 and work all day servicing the coal industry, it really sickens me. You refuse to acknowlege that they even exit, let alone the services they provide. And this doesn't even include the people who drive down the Turnpike to work at Republic and Kanawha Eagle and Speed Mining and Catenary. Or those who drive out Route 3 and 85 to work at the Massey and Patriot and ICG mines.

When I was 19 I was idealistic, too. But disregarding people's livelihoods due to the misbehavior of corporate barons and politicians, and saying that 10000 jobs wouldn't be noticed, and simply brushing off these people that have bills to pay and pay taxes - well that's not just arrogant and clueless, ivehadenough, it's just wrong.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:47 PM
 
191 posts, read 780,651 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by IveHadEnough View Post
Your "guesstimate?" My guesstimate is your guesstimate is much too high. There's only about 10,000 miners left in WV, that's a fact the coal companies use. The "spinoff" jobs they always tout, always seem to come from the ether.
From West Virginia Coal Facts (wvminesafety.org)
"The West Virginia Coal Industry provides about 40,000 direct jobs in WV, including miners, mine contractors, coal preparation plant employees and mine supply companies."

Okay, Ivehadenough, we have had enough of your misinformation.
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