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Old 10-23-2009, 07:15 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,607 posts, read 16,271,749 times
Reputation: 13049

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtercupMcToots View Post
What happens to everything the government currently runs, medicare, social security, schools, libraries, parks, etc.?
Let Don Blakenship run it, lol.
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:18 PM
 
4,714 posts, read 12,166,173 times
Reputation: 1057
Most of the despots of the mid 1700's came inbred families left over from the Norman invasion of 1066.

Ours, King George suffered from VD and many of his descisions were that of a lunatic. It took great brains to simplify a government that would hold tyranny at bay...those men were there. Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Franklin and the like...hammered it all out with debate and reason...a common sense approach to the problem.

They were strong...we are weak...we don't deserve the rights of free men and should be enslaved.

The sad thing is this...when the totalitarians write the future history of themselves, they will write out these words...Liberty, Choice and Freedom...Esteem and Worth.
It will have no place in that civilization and in a scant generation, must be forgotton...

and rightfully so...but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that a Theodore Roosevelt will come forth and lead us out of this quadmire.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia 'Burbs
938 posts, read 2,639,278 times
Reputation: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
Those barriers are put there by the government to LIMIT and CONTROL the industry. Free enterprise will control it, as the consumers (WE the people) are fully capable of doing any regulating on a very LOCAL scale.
Local economies don't exist in a bubble like that.

Quote:
Why must you feel that big government is better at regulating YOUR community?
It depends. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Again, shades of gray.

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Do you lack the same mental wattage as your government agent, or are you simply too lazy? I say that with the full knowledge that most ARE in fact too lazy to care.
I don't think I'm lazy. I don't follow an ideology. I formulated my own thoughts. If that's lazy...then I guess I'm lazy.

Quote:
You've answered for me.
Yeah, I know.

Quote:
The balance is found when the heroin user infringes on anothers right. Does DUI/DWI ring a bell? Alcohol is the single most common drug used. It cause 85,000 deaths per year (2000 data). All illicit drug use, direct and indirect results in 17,000 deaths per year. Why do we tolerate alcohol? What's the difference? Legality? The government "allowing" this poison, but not another?
Well, ethanol isn't as addicting as an opioid...and DUI is already illegal...honestly, you're barking up the wrong tree being as though I really don't have much of a problem with the social aspect of the libertarian party. You really should stop assuming you know what I think. The economic part (you know, what we are talking about,) frankly, frightens me.


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This is so far remove from an intelligent statement
Irony.

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I've been to Somalia. There are no free people there. It is in no way Libertarian. It is a Totalitarian regime.
So you've been to Somalia and yet you think it's a "totalitarian regime?" How can a place with no effective gov't be a "regime," exactly? No, it's an anarchist free-market. It really is. The freakin' clinical definition. No government. No government controls. Capitalists compete every day. AK-47s on the streets for $25 a piece. And those with the most economic power are using that power to leverage the population. Hence, people are willing to do terrible things for the war lords for food and khat...because they have no other choice being as though the wealth class there has ALL of the power.

Is this an over-the-top example? Sure. But so isn't using Stalin to show how "evil" socialism is. I suppose its fighting fire with fire. But those that support a market with no interventions from a higher authority to regulate it from spinning out of control need to see the extreme examples.

Quote:
What "history" do you have to indicate capitalism isnt "good"?
More putting words in my mouth. I claimed that unchecked capitalism isn't good. There needs to be capitalistic parts to a healthy economy. It's that humans aren't perfect enough to make it work for the exact same reason Marxism can't work. Depressions, leveraging people with essential industries, etc. It's happened before. Thankfully in this country, we have anti-trust laws that don't let things get that bad...outside of the occasional Great Depression...and when the electricity deregulation made California damn near bankrupt...allowing Enron to make billions by jacking up rates when they shut off various electical grids strategically...

Quote:
The problem you fail to see is that capitalism works wonderfully without governmental intervention.
Again. In Somalia, there is no government. Why are they not a utopia of life and liberty? And you can see the consolidation of power into the hands of a few that frightens me.

The only thing I know is that mixed economies are the most efficient and successful on this planet.

Quote:
GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE SOLUTION, IT IS THE PROBLEM. More of it WILL NOT fix the problem.
You are putting words in my mouth....again. I would say that government is part of the equation, but not the entire solution. A balanced degree of it will ensure maximal economic efficiency.

Quote:
We as a people have had the government robbing us blind, and giving us a crappy product with no customer service for too many years. Pharm may be OK with that, are you? I sure a hell think my fellow Americans deserve better. Much better.
So do you go around proclaiming people think certain things all the time? You really don't know what I think...other than that the idea of an economy with zero gov't regulation isn't a great idea...I'm not really satisfied with the gov't, either.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:23 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,607 posts, read 16,271,749 times
Reputation: 13049
Actually some states and municipalities are moving towards libertarian ideals, especially with the privatization of roads and other well known 'public infrastructure' matters.

How that pans out will be very interesting. Your roads are no longer publicly owned, the right of ways transferred from public to private domain.. The implications are enormous. There is usually an agreement between the two, but how long it's in effect?

So in a true sense, libertarian ideals would allow, with impunity, foreign owned enterprises the right to purchase essential assets and infrastructure from any one, or anything, here.

Me personally? I want no part of that ideology. At all. Be careful what you wish for....
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Old 10-23-2009, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
1,743 posts, read 3,070,722 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
I've been reading some history this week...'French Revolution....got its roots here...a very scary read.

Byrd had been re-elected for the good he has done...Rocky for the money bags that could not be touched by another...

A Republican cannot win those races even if he owned the mint...a new honest face must come from the Dems (which is impossible, Bob Kiss, Bob Wise, Nick Rahall lol lol ha ha ha, see what I mean) or a complete new protest party of the people.
Thanks for answering my question. I received an email on this from a friend who moved to WV about 2 years ago. Although not as high-minded as the discussion here, I hope that this characterization of WV will get much rebuttal:

Quote:
There were lots of Obama/Biden yard signs out in the 'hills and hollers' before and after the election. Hardly any for the competitors. I thought that this would be a mostly conservative state, but I have learned that the unions have quite a stronghold here, i.e. all the miners. There a lot of po' folks on the dole here. Down in Mingo county, if the neighbors don't like you, they will burn your house down, or your trailer, excuse me - with you in it. No joke.

The worst place I have seen yet was in eastern Kentucky... XXXX told me it was worse there, but I didn't believe him until I saw it for myself. It's baaaad. Really baaaad. People there still have dirt floors and no running water. If I didn't think I'd get shot, I'd love to ask them, "How's that hope and change working for ya?"
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Old 10-24-2009, 04:44 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 12,166,173 times
Reputation: 1057
The 'If it was good enough for Pa and Ma it is good enough for me' mentality still has hot spots in every state.

Those dirt floor cabins still have the same pictures on the walls as they did 40 years ago...Jesus or Frank Roosevelt (as they are equals) John L. Lewis and JFK.

When things are prefected, what change would be needed?
I don't understand your comments, everyone knows that Mingo County is a close to heaven as a person could get..eastern Kentucky is a suburb hoping to rise to the same level.

JFK and Lyndon Baines Johnson and Jimmy Carter made everything perfect with 40 years of hard work and 500 billion dollars...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Gave those people everything but jobs and education...like I said, It's been perfected.

Consider it a model for our future...
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
1,528 posts, read 3,616,748 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
Let Don Blakenship run it, lol.
Haha exactly..unfortunately it won't let me give rep points to you without spreading it around. I'm sure private industry would gladly foot the bill for our road system, schools, etc.

Anyone who has worked with private and public industry knows that both are equally self destructing. The whole "government isn't the answer to anything" argument is illogical and usually proudly professed by people who do a damn good job living off of government subsidies. They always have a great excuse as to why it's OK for them to draw things like unemployment, disability, federal student loans, welfare, social security, medicare, etc. but not the "deadbeats." As WVUpharm said there is balance to everything.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
1,528 posts, read 3,616,748 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtercupMcToots View Post
What happens to everything the government currently runs, medicare, social security, schools, libraries, parks, etc.?
HAH yeah..and I bet at the end of the day you will gladly cash those social security checks, make ample use of medicare discounts, send (or have sent) your kids to public schools, use libraries, parks, etc.
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,455,110 times
Reputation: 812
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82 View Post
HAH yeah..and I bet at the end of the day you will gladly cash those social security checks, make ample use of medicare discounts, send (or have sent) your kids to public schools, use libraries, parks, etc.
I have a friend from high school who thinks that way now too. It's funny, she's a little parrot of her uninformed parents, boy friend. It's quite sad actually. She was arguing with me one day about how evil the government is and how "the Jesus" is lacking in it. Also how we are now a socialist country and how the money her family earns should be theirs to keep. I looked at her and said exactly! Tell your father to start ripping up his disability checks he gets every month. It's not my job as a tax payer to see that you're family is getting food. We also could lower our taxes by doing away with teachers aides, which her mother is. They're not a necessity in a classroom, only supplemental to the teacher. This poor girl has no idea what socialism even is, or squat about government. But you bet your @ss she voted. My parents are both in the private sectors of engineering and health care so either way it doesn't affect me. Their taxes directly pay for her family to survive but apparently all aspects socialism are evil... ha ha
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Puerto Penasco, Mexico
967 posts, read 2,755,585 times
Reputation: 522
Was looking through a link for a magazine I'm subscribing to, and found this: Who are the libertarians? Can they save the Constitution? by John Silveira Issue #120

I think it does a far better job of explaining than I did.
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