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Old 11-16-2009, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
7,168 posts, read 7,963,071 times
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I live out in Michigan and I fly my 3rd national confederate off my front porch. Lots of people display them out here, even though this state obviously fought for the wrong side last time. I dont fly it over racial issues, could care less one way or another about that. I fly it out of disgust for what our goverment has become. The confederates were correct about states rights and local control, they were right and Ill honor them. I think all freedom loving americans should either put up some form of confederate flag, or the gadasen (dont tread on me). Our ever growing goverment needs a gentle reminder of how we Americans dealt with tyranny in the past, and this is the attitude our founding fathers would EXPECT us to take. Freedom is not free, we need to work to keep it.
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:13 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,604 posts, read 16,268,681 times
Reputation: 13049
Ironically the Confederate Constitution bore the much of the same 'federalist' doctrine found in the US Constitution, but making iron-clad the issue of slave ownership (which the US version held a similar clause for persons in indentured servitude). It left no state in the confederacy the right to argue that matter. There were also commerce and trade rights afforded the central government, including rights of tariffs and other issues that smack contradictory to pure 'states rights' or 'state sovereign' ideals.

There was much bickering, and some states bore outright refusal to adopt Davis' plan- North Carolina comes certainly to mind where the Governor hired thousands of young men to the state government in order to avoid conscription by the confederacy- a move, which again, usurps states rights.

The summation of the Confederate constitution is all that addressed was slavery by name, and managed to differ little than that of it's predecessor other than to address specific grievances up until that moment in history.

This is why he Gadsdon Flag flies for me- it represented the fight against dictatorial oppression, taxation without representation- the fight against unjust government. It harbored no illusions to slavery or bondage- just pure American spirit. It has a rich history, and bodes well today.

http://www.foundingfathers.info/stories/gadsden.html

Last edited by Threerun; 11-16-2009 at 08:22 PM..
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,760,714 times
Reputation: 6835
We're a bit more subtle here in Virginia. In Alexandria, we fly the real "stars and bars" official flag of the confederacy (not the inappropriate battle flag) on Memorial Day. Most people, including the redneck yokels, probably couldn't tell you what it looks like so it doesn't raise too many hackles, as opposed to our neighbors to the South who fly the "in your face" battle flag over the state capitol.

It is amusing to think of WV folk flying the battle flag, considering they fought for the union (there were actually more confederate sympathizers in MD than WV I think). Also, if you're going to fly the flag, at least use the official one.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:43 PM
 
10,123 posts, read 12,766,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
We're a bit more subtle here in Virginia. In Alexandria, we fly the real "stars and bars" official flag of the confederacy (not the inappropriate battle flag) on Memorial Day. Most people, including the redneck yokels, probably couldn't tell you what it looks like so it doesn't raise too many hackles, as opposed to our neighbors to the South who fly the "in your face" battle flag over the state capitol.

It is amusing to think of WV folk flying the battle flag, considering they fought for the union (there were actually more confederate sympathizers in MD than WV I think). Also, if you're going to fly the flag, at least use the official one.
Actually, there were many confederate sympathizers in West Virginia. Stonewall Jackson was a West Virginian, and the notorious Shriver Grays was a Confederate unit from Wheeling. The conflict was not nearly as geographic as generally depicted. New York City was Confederate leaning. Slavery was a peripheral issue and was not restricted to the South. Rhode Island was a slave state even though it was in New England, and Delaware was a slave state even though it sided with the Union. Virginia was barely a slave state and opinions there were not decidedly in favor of the practice. Most Americans, including whites residing in the South, never owned a slave.

Many residents of southern states fought for the Federals and many residents of northern states fought for the Confederates, including Private Kulp of Gettysburg, PA who died on his own family farm fighting for the Confederates. There was a county in Mississippi that seceded from the state in an attempt to remain loyal to the Union. The whole thing was one mixed up mess that resulted in hundreds of thousands of Americans killing each other.
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:43 PM
 
10,123 posts, read 12,766,614 times
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Today's divides are not along state, or even regional lines. They are essentially along rural-urban lines. Every state has strong "blue" and "red" areas. Nothing would approach a Civil War, but I can see political divisions along the urban-rural line for some time to come. The urban entitlement mentality will not sustain itself in the long run, and when borderline independents vote blue, it certainly is not to bring about the kinds of crap we see going on today... there will almost certainly be a big backlash next year, but it will be at the ballot box. Also, I'd definitely put money on the chief executive being a one termer. This is not a Marxist nation.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:00 PM
 
246 posts, read 807,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
Today's divides are not along state, or even regional lines. They are essentially along rural-urban lines. Every state has strong "blue" and "red" areas. Nothing would approach a Civil War, but I can see political divisions along the urban-rural line for some time to come. The urban entitlement mentality will not sustain itself in the long run, and when borderline independents vote blue, it certainly is not to bring about the kinds of crap we see going on today... there will almost certainly be a big backlash next year, but it will be at the ballot box. Also, I'd definitely put money on the chief executive being a one termer. This is not a Marxist nation.

I think your on to something CT but I think it's gonna get a little rougher than the ballot box.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:31 PM
 
39 posts, read 114,993 times
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Hopefully everyone has indeed jumped off of the Obama bandwagon. CT is indeed onto something with this radical socialist democratic healthcare plan. Anyway, i live in NJ and whoever said people display it is erroneous. This state is so left-wing and corrupt. Robert E Lee will rise again people..2012 we are all done....
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:32 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,604 posts, read 16,268,681 times
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I don't know. A lot of independants are just as turned off by the right winger GOP crowd. They don't represent the middle ground whether you're urban or rural.

Actually I see clear divisions along religious lines, then blurred divisions elsewhere. The truth is the more the GOP moves to the right the better the chances for a second term (which is of course to early to tell).

Plus the GOP is offering no credible solutions of their own other than to banter and dissent. That only goes so far. I read an article yetsterday where this was illustrated, and a member of the GOP was asked, regarding the financial bailout, "Well what would you have done to avoid the financial meltdown and recession".. He paused and quipped "I guess we're lucky we are not in charge".

Yeah- that's refreshing.

Where's William F. Buckley again? Oh right. He's dead. Same as his old party, lol.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:40 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,604 posts, read 16,268,681 times
Reputation: 13049
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugyboy420 View Post
Hopefully everyone has indeed jumped off of the Obama bandwagon. CT is indeed onto something with this radical socialist democratic healthcare plan. Anyway, i live in NJ and whoever said people display it is erroneous. This state is so left-wing and corrupt. Robert E Lee will rise again people..2012 we are all done....
Let's see- under Clinton there was an assault weapon ban, Waco, etc..

Bushy did the Patriot Act, blatant restrictions of personal liberty....

And Obama has done what? Spend money? What's new- the GOP did a fine job with that regard as well. No talk of bans, no talk of infringement on individual liberties..

What's with all the paranoia?

This is the same, EXACT same paranoia I witnessed when Clinton was in office. I had to leave a muzzleloading club because it was overrun with whack-jobs spewing anti-government BS, clamoring the UN was taking control of NYC and soon the Capitol. " Take up Arms! Take up Arms! Join the militia! "
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,327 posts, read 2,828,979 times
Reputation: 1480
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
We're a bit more subtle here in Virginia. In Alexandria, we fly the real "stars and bars" official flag of the confederacy (not the inappropriate battle flag) on Memorial Day. Most people, including the redneck yokels, probably couldn't tell you what it looks like so it doesn't raise too many hackles, as opposed to our neighbors to the South who fly the "in your face" battle flag over the state capitol.

It is amusing to think of WV folk flying the battle flag, considering they fought for the union (there were actually more confederate sympathizers in MD than WV I think). Also, if you're going to fly the flag, at least use the official one.
Actually you are quite wrong, but it's not your fault, I blame historians. By August of 1861 there were twice as many West Virginians in the service of Virginia than the Union. Also, since about two-thirds of West Virginia consists of Confederate counties, most West Virginians can rightly fly the Confederate flag if they wish.

Quote:
UNION FORCES (approx. 2600 native WV)
1st WV Infantry (39% West Virginian)
2nd WV Infantry (50% West Virginian)
3rd WV Infantry (mostly West Virginian)
4th WV Infantry (30% West Virginian)
1st WV Cavalry (32% West Virginian)
2nd WV Cavalry (20% West Virginian)

CONFEDERATE FORCES (approx 5000 native WV)
25th Virginia Infantry
31st Virginia Infantry
Wise's Legion (approx. 2600 men)
Virginia State Militia, Genls. Beckley & Chapman
(approx. 2000 men from Raleigh & Monroe area)
Stonewall Brigade (approx. 1300 native WV)

The Union numbers contained huge amounts of PA/OH men. The Confederate numbers also had a lot of men from current VA counties, so I deducted 3,000 from the total. The 25th VA, 31st VA and the Stonewall Brigade number are fairly solid West Virginian
The 16th WV Infantry was mostly northern Virginia, Maryland and immigrant soldiers, there were almost no West Virginians in it. Also, the 200 or so USCT, or United States Colored Troops that are credited to West Virginia were from Pennsylvania.
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