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Old 11-19-2009, 07:52 AM
 
10,147 posts, read 15,041,303 times
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That's not exactly true. Transporting them back to Africa was one possible solution contemplated at one point in time, but it isn't accurate to depict that is Lincoln's desires. He sought solutions that would keep everyone happy.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:59 AM
 
532 posts, read 1,090,948 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by clammy ear View Post
GottaHerdOn-

I didn't mean that in any nasty, condescending way, so I apologize if it seemed nasty. I just worry about the direction this country is heading and sometimes I mouth off (or type off!) a bit without thinking.

I was also raised to respect the President, but it is hard for me to see how many seem to feel that they only need to respect the President if he is a Democrat that they voted for. I just hate the double standards and am frustrated by them. As for W., I think history will remember him more kindly as time goes on. That's just my opinion though, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I do prefer him to the current President though, even though I was not in agreement with most of his policies.

As for coal, I hope you're right...I really do. And no, I don't want to live on a heavily polluted planet and I do support alternative energy sources, I just do not support the government trying to force it on us through cap and trade and legislating what types of light bulbs, toilets (do NOT get me started on the 1.7 gallon "less water wasted" toilets...UGH!), or washing machines we can buy, or banning TV's that supposedly use "too much electricity" like they are doing in CA. Let the free market decide. If we demand cleaner energy, the technology will be developed faster and cheaper than if big government interferes. I also do not support strip mining, I think it's horrid and we can find a better way.

I do not think that Obama has raised our status in the world one bit. I think we have to be feared to some extent to be respected, and Obama just comes across as weak and overly apologetic. I don't think we should act like we rule the planet, but I DO think we should get some respect. We have allies but for some reason we don't cultivate new allies like we should. For example, Honduras. We could be handling that situation differently, we could have acknowledged their right to depose the socialist Zelaya who was violating their Constitution, but instead we decided to DEMAND that he be reinstated as President when we had no business trying to tell them how to run their affairs. Trying to impose our wishes on other sovereign countries is what made us so hated in the first place, yet here we are, doing it again! As for Europe, they are just resentful of the US....have been since WWII and we need to take that resentment into account when weighing their opinions of us. I do realize it is a fine line, but...it's a fine line. Bush was too harsh, and Obama is too weak. We need to find a middle ground, but maybe that's easier said than done.

Oh, and if enough people start voting Libertarian, we CAN make a change. I agree with most of your views, believe it or not. I don't support universal health care though, even though I myself am uninsured, because now is not the time to be adding to the deficit. I do support a type of reform, but it should not be rushed or forced on people who don't want it by legislators who don't even know what is in the bill that they are trying to shove through. And I don't believe in giving certain genders/races preferential treatment under the guise of "rights", because all it does is divide people even further. I support equal rights for everyone, and believe that everyone needs to be treated the same, regardless of race, sexual orientation, gender, etc., but I don't think the way we are going about it is the right way. From what I see, all we're doing with all these race/gender/etc. targeted "rights" is creating an "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" mindset, which is not what America is about. I don't know though....it's hard to say, and I don't know all the facts on every issue....
Everyone keeps talking about the way the country is headed and being afaid, where do you see it heading?
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,248,320 times
Reputation: 6920
I think this thread needs to head to the politics forum.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:36 AM
 
Location: In the woods
3,315 posts, read 10,090,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
That's not exactly true. Transporting them back to Africa was one possible solution contemplated at one point in time, but it isn't accurate to depict that is Lincoln's desires. He sought solutions that would keep everyone happy.
Yeah, I think one solution was to transport slaves back to Africa and another was to 'give' them a state/area in the USA all for their own that would've been called New Liberia. Problem is is that slaves were so far removed from their original homelands that they would not have spoken the language, been familiar with the culture, etc.

Not really sure and I am sure someone on the History Forum would know.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Panama City FL
31 posts, read 82,256 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtercupMcToots View Post
Everyone keeps talking about the way the country is headed and being afaid, where do you see it heading?
I feel like we are losing our essential freedoms, and moving towards socialism, which should terrify any American. The government bailing out banks, taking over the auto industry, forcing health care on people who do not want it, all of these things are eroding personal freedom. The tons of laws banning smoking, regulating every aspect of people's lives....it's just going to get worse and worse. The government ignores our wishes, belittles our protests and calls the protesters all sorts of nasty names. None of this bodes well for the future. I forsee the destruction of the middle class, and creation of a country where 99% of the country is in poverty, while the 1% of ruling elites treats us like slaves. Sort of like a modern Tsarist Russia-type of society. We seem to be regressing instead of progressing, and seem to be doomed to repeat the worst parts of history.

CTMountaineer-

Contrary to revisionist history, Lincoln did not like the blacks and was not some kind of early civil rights hero. The ONLY reason he even did the Emancipation Proclamation was to try and economically cripple the South. He did want to send most of them to Liberia, which is not taught in schools nowadays. He was a repatriationist like Jefferson, which is evident if you read his writings...which again, are not taught in schools. We are not teaching the true history of this country, only some sort of bastardized and revised idealised "history". It's pushing an agenda, plain and simple. If you want the truth, you have to have to research and read it for yourself, because the powers that be will do everything they can to re-write history and pass it off as truth, when it is not factual.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:09 PM
 
532 posts, read 1,090,948 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by clammy ear View Post
I feel like we are losing our essential freedoms, and moving towards socialism, which should terrify any American. The government bailing out banks, taking over the auto industry, forcing health care on people who do not want it, all of these things are eroding personal freedom. The tons of laws banning smoking, regulating every aspect of people's lives....it's just going to get worse and worse. The government ignores our wishes, belittles our protests and calls the protesters all sorts of nasty names. None of this bodes well for the future. I forsee the destruction of the middle class, and creation of a country where 99% of the country is in poverty, while the 1% of ruling elites treats us like slaves. Sort of like a modern Tsarist Russia-type of society. We seem to be regressing instead of progressing, and seem to be doomed to repeat the worst parts of history.

CTMountaineer-

Contrary to revisionist history, Lincoln did not like the blacks and was not some kind of early civil rights hero. The ONLY reason he even did the Emancipation Proclamation was to try and economically cripple the South. He did want to send most of them to Liberia, which is not taught in schools nowadays. He was a repatriationist like Jefferson, which is evident if you read his writings...which again, are not taught in schools. We are not teaching the true history of this country, only some sort of bastardized and revised idealised "history". It's pushing an agenda, plain and simple. If you want the truth, you have to have to research and read it for yourself, because the powers that be will do everything they can to re-write history and pass it off as truth, when it is not factual.
I don't remember all this when Medicare D was passed. That's the largest social program ever and it is unfunded. I can't quite understand losing freedom if you have healthcare. Do you want to do away with all government run programs? There was a woman on another forum that didn't want any "socialist" programs. She was drawing unemployment, a social welfare program. I guess she didn't want any socialist programs she wasn't using.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Panama City FL
31 posts, read 82,256 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtercupMcToots View Post
I don't remember all this when Medicare D was passed. That's the largest social program ever and it is unfunded. I can't quite understand losing freedom if you have healthcare. Do you want to do away with all government run programs? There was a woman on another forum that didn't want any "socialist" programs. She was drawing unemployment, a social welfare program. I guess she didn't want any socialist programs she wasn't using.
I am against most social programs, simply because I think the private sector can do it better. Anything the government does is inefficient and wasteful. I have never recieved any government money, and never will, because I am not a hypocrite. However, I think unemployment is different, because when you are employed, you are paying into that, so technically, when you become unemployed, you are getting back the money you paid into the system.

I was in elementary school when Medicare D was passed, so I cannot really comment without doing some research on the subject. I obviously don't want people dying from lack of healthcare, but I don't think the government needs to be involved, or at least not exclusively. It needs to be regulated to some extent, but I think the bulk should be done by the private sector. True, they are not doing a great job of it now, but if we removed some of the ridiculous restrictions imposed by the govt, we could get real reform that costs less and covers more. And universal health care does not automatically equal better health care...look at Canada, the UK, etc. They all have health care, yet people are dying because they cannot get in to see a doctor or get the lifesaving procedures they need due to rationing, budget cuts, lack of doctors, etc., so while I support some form of reform, I think it is something that needs a LOT of research, careful planning, and thought, not this appeal to emotions and playing on people's fears that is going on currently.

Honestly though, in an ideal situation, I think the government should be for defense and infrastructure only. Defense is the only thing that the Constitution specifically calls for, which is kind of interesting. Basically, I think personal responsibility is what we need, but the system is not set up to encourage that, because if you are responsible for yourselves, then what do you need the government for? The last thing the people currently in power want is for us to take care of ourselves, because then they'll be out of a job and unable to steal our money and keep us under their control. We need to recognize this, and act accordingly. Because does anyone really want the government to have power over their lives?
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:47 PM
 
39 posts, read 125,541 times
Reputation: 24
We are in a REPUBLIC so i don't know why the government wants to own GM. Bows to the saudi king? No American president should bow to anyone especially a royal family who has ties with terrorist organizations. Then again he associates with racist Wright, Sharpton, Jackson and then some. Spent 10 Trillion dollars. The inflation comming from this is going to make us like a 3rd world economy. You people need to stop watching CNN and Wolf Blitzer and put on Mark Levin.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Western Maryland
352 posts, read 796,730 times
Reputation: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
I think this thread needs to head to the politics forum.
I agree with CAVA ...Please move this topic to Politics !
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,750 posts, read 22,654,259 times
Reputation: 24907
n/m.. Ain't worth the time

Last edited by Threerun; 11-19-2009 at 01:54 PM..
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