Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes and let us not forget that other odious chore, human trafficking USA daughters into a career for brothels. American women want their jobs back!! ROFL (OR... maybe no one ought to have that job?)
DK I'm going to love to see the spin on how your choice of dog makes you simultaneously a communist sympathizer and hysterical zenophobe. hahahahahaa
CT don't you get that a plethora of anecdotal experience PLUS considerable body of evidence on wiki doesn't count when weighed against a singular statistic, freshmen psych students, or good intentioned social workers mired in detail of misery?
I think I'll make some popped corn and pull up a lawn chair for this spectacle.
"good intentioned social workers mired in detail of misery"... I love that! Very good!
And you point to the real core of the problem for the feel good group. They are mired in misery because they feel they deserve to be in the condition. After all, without guilt and self flagilation they could never really "feel" sorry about the plight of others (who could never really be responsible for it themselves... somebody has to be blamed!). And, since they personally don't share many characteristics with the "victims", they must share in the culpability.
If a cousin of your white ancestor owned a slave, that means you must owe reparations to someone, and by extension everyone who looks like you must share in the pain too. And, it wouldn't matter if you had been mugged by a member of the "victim" group, because after all the perpetrator wouldn't have done it if he weren't somehow disadvantaged by someone else's greed.
That way you get to feel good by feeling guilty, and you can feel even better when you suffer. It is a self fulfilling prophecy set in perpetual motion.
Those are absolutely worth exploring for West Virginia. Arizona
residents are faced with the same economic pressures we see
in much of the rest of the country. The failure of our Federal
Government to rigidly enforce our immigration laws has resulted
in tremendous pressure on the social services and educational
structures of Arizona government, costs for which they are not
reimbursed by the Feds. They have no choice but to act to
protect their interests because the Feds (which have perfectly
adequate laws on the books) refuse to enforce their own laws.
The State is forced to help them do it, for their own self
protection.
That's just the tip of the iceberg. The feel good types and the ultra rich who just want cheap labor (at everyone elses expense) are doing a great disservice to our country. The illicits are causing huge damage in many areas. Those who happen to not live in areas yet affected feel free to push for soft policies, but they do so at the expense and harm to the rest of us.
If it were their child being assaulted by a group of thugs, or their neighborhood being interrupted it would be a different story. It costs the State of NY hundreds of millions per year in unfunded expenses due to the Federal Government's neglect in immigration enforcement, and the State is on the verge of bankruptcy.
I have to believe you have very little personal, direct experience in this matter. I have extensive experience. I worked for more than 2 decades in criminal justice and have seen first hand the effects of the presence of their criminal elements among us. I also lived in a small town (Brewster, NY) until it became uninhabitable due to their presence, their persistent harrassment of locals after dark until they feared going out of their homes at night.
Your extensive experience biased your views of an entire group of people based upon the actions of a relative few and caused you to develop and adhere to stereotypes. You do realize that by nature your field causes you more often than not to come into contact with the criminal element over the average illegal immigrant. Because of this you have developed strong opinions that are nonfactual, and have a racial undertone.
In effect you're missing out on the big picture. The same generalizations you make on the illegal immigrants apply to any impoverished groups of people whether they be white, black, or latino.
You honestly think for one second that there wasn't a criminal element that came with previous waves of immigration to the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
If you think you could go to any other country to live and work without making an effort to assimilate, I'd like to know of your experience base there too. I lived and worked in Europe for more than 4 years, and am actually fluent in the Spanish language. You just can't do that and thrive, and you can't do it without creating major resentment wherever you locate.
There has to be some adaptation to merely exist in a foreign environment. Eliminating language barriers and working with what you're provided to thrive are essential in the long term, but not necessarily right away. That's happening here with our immigrants, but anywhere that you have a group of people with similar backgrounds living together they will revert to their native language and habits. Its happened here with other immigrant groups as well. Out of curiosity, how did you learn Spanish? I'm willing to bet that you didn't teach it to yourself in your free time, or have a friend teach you. I'm curious as to how quickly you would've picked it up had you been attempting to work several jobs while also caring for your family, and lacked the money to pay for lessons.
Assimilation by definition is when a minority group adopts the customs and attitudes of the prevailing culture, and requires giving up a large part of oneself. You did not assimilate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
And, perhaps you haven't been to the Southwest lately. I've been there twice in the past year, and have a brother who has lived in Orange County, California for the past 25 years. Culture conflict is the real deal there... often to the point of violence and it creates nightmares for local governments who are required to adapt to and cope with the mess. The sense of entitlement is quite unrelated to our welfare wonder types. These folks demand special services (at everyone else's expense) and education in their "own" languages.
You fail to mention that in many of these areas the latino's have effectively become the majority. Why wouldn't they speak their own languages? If there were a spanish town where a large group of english speaking peoples lived wouldn't you revert to your native tongue?
"These folks demand special services" So do the majority of Americans who go overseas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
Even if you were to be right (and there is just no logical way you could be right), how could you justify a position favoring more immigration when there are 15 million known unemployed American citizens right here. That position is just plain stupid. You can't pick up a paper these days without reading about more layoffs and business closings. Yet we are to absorb millions of these illegal aliens and pay for their shortcomings and needs with our dwindling tax base? Please. You didn't hold on to the right conservative values.
Because those who are unemployed primarily come from occupations that the illegals AREN'T working. The jobs that they primarily fill require less than a highschool diploma. I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of that 15 million aren't putting in applications at McDonald's or to pick fruit.
I'm not for open door immigration, or amnesty, but I do recognize a demand for labor that exists within our country that Americans aren't meeting. The immigrants aren't coming here to mooch off of our welfare programs (which they aren't eligible for anyhow). The vast majority of them are working. 33 thousand visa's for unskilled labor doesn't meet the demand that we have for labor. There's also an inherent hypocrisy in that we are denying a group of people the opportunity that our ancestors were afforded, and claiming that this time its different.
Must tell this true story...will help clarify a point about assimilation in West Virginia.
Mickey is of asian extraction...chinese to be exact.
He was raised in Colorado and was very sheltered as an infant and juvenile.
His foster parents were American but spoke only Italian in the home. (Mom was Italian and wanted the little daughter to keep some of the old world values)
Mickeys entire existence was very sheltered because he really didn't fit into the family.
We offered to take him in about 10 years ago.
We picked him up at the Pittsburgh Airport and low and behold couldn't really communicate.
When we got to our house and were walking through the yard, he fell down...He got up and took a few more steps and fell down again...
What we discovered was a great little fellow who could not speak English and had trouble walking on ground that was not flat.
To make a long story short, Mickey learned English and how to walk in Wv...he also became quite a squirrel hunter too...one of the best I've ever seen.
He has cataracs now and has trouble but on a good brisk morning, he can give them a good run..
West Virginia has been great for Mickey and I tell him that often. I tell him he would have had a very bleak life if he had stayed in Colorado.
Mickey Shiat-zu Kennedy had little trouble adjusting and learning our Wv behavior codes...
He has actually thrived here because he assimilated.
My thoughts are these, if a dog can make language and social adjustments...it's not asking to much of our new immigrants to do that same thing.
capeech?
Good question. Why can't they since its so easy. Perhaps you yourself should attempt it for a month and see just how easy it is. I mean if a dog or child without any experience or memory of a culture can do it, surely someone from a superior race can do it themselves?
Perhaps you can attempt to be one of those "orientals"? You can eat a meat free diet composed primarily of noodles/rice/vegetables that are native to that area of the world, adopt their form of dress, and begin riding a bike to work? I'm sure you could easily adopt the culture of those lesser peoples and assimilate for a brief time. Might even lose a little weight too.
Must be a piece of cake when you're working for less than minimum wage, hiding from ICE, and attempting to feed your family.
quote=wv.artistry;12603119]I won't argue there are immigration groups within this country that refuse to be a part of America, and my exposure to these types has left me with one conclusion : they are racists.[/quote]
Interesting that you say that. From what I've read on here with people adhering to stereotypes there are some racists on this board as well. I wonder if the immigrants developed racist views after being persecuted by Americans who regard them as sub human (and in the case of our David Kennedy regard them in the same light as children or dogs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wv.artistry
Why they immigrate to America is beyond me (other than to funnel money back to their "home" countries). And why those who hate America and Americans are allowed to immigrate here, is even further from sanity.
Not very informed on what life is like in the third world are we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wv.artistry
Immigrate to Iran and purposely try to not fit in. Tell me how that works out for you.
Because Iran and the US are the same place right? Same level of personal freedoms, same level of tolerance, same level of opportunity. You would have a point if we cut the hands off of anyone who shoplifted or stoned women for adultery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wv.artistry
Despite your attempt to rewrite history and propagandize cultural shifts, Russians are the most successful immigrant group in America today because they do assimilate, as historically, most successful immigrant groups do. You purport that non-assimilation is a natural behavior?
I suppose that's why we have Orthodox churches all over the place, and predominantly Russian areas of town. I suppose China Town in New York wasn't named for the extremely large contingent of Chinese who live there and still maintain the customs that they grew up with in the east.
Who's rewriting? We've all been fed a load of crap growing up about how people who come here assimilate when it doesn't happen. We have predominantly ethnic neighborhoods all over the country. We have restaurants that sell ethnic foods (and not the Americanized versions either). In the city I live in alone there are four or five neighborhoods alone, and our population is only around 300k. In my neighborhood in the Polish section of town we have one little mom and pop grocery, and the majority of the products within it don't have a single word of English on the packaging. You think people aren't eating, dressing, and acting much as if they were back in their home country? We have foreign churches, mosques, synagogues, or other worship centers all over the place.
No one assimilates. You wouldn't do it yourself, yet you merely expect anyone who comes here to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wv.artistry
I've known "immigrants", related to some, and have heard on occasion, "Yes, I was born in . . but now I am an American!" I'm not advocating a nationalism, but this is in stark contrast to statements such as, "Wherever there is a Mexican -- there is Mexico", waiving flags of another country on our soil, threats of overthrow, etc. Common sense, anyone?
You don't think the same is true of Americans? You don't think that anywhere groups of us congregate overseas that we attempt to mimic our home country? The military bases we have in foreign countries aren't little pieces of America that exude our culture and lifestyle? That there aren't restaurants and bars specifically set up to cater to Americans?
I'll use myself as an example:
I moved to Pittsburgh 3 years ago from WV, and the difference in subcultures is striking. I am not a Pittsburgher, nor will I ever be. True I adopted some customs of the locals out of necessity (like using the bus to get around as parking is scarce), but beyond that I'm still a WVian. The food I eat, the music I listen to, the way I dress, and the way I talk at times all reflect where I'm from. I'm not about to start drinking Iron City, watching the "stillers", using words like "Yinz"/"N'at", eating Primanti's (which sucks by the way), or adopting the local accent ("dahntahn" for downtown). My kids likely will to some extent, and my grandkids probably will if our family is here long enough. Me? Not going to happen. You don't erase the experiences of a lifetime.
Assimilation arguments are a ruse to sidestep facts, which serves a purpose unto itself.
Where have Islamists even attempted to set up a Sharia court, or force American women to cover their faces?
The mexican immigrants aren't attempting to impose their culture on you or anyone else. You feel threatened by them out of misplaced fear and ignorance. The most you have to complain about is where they might not be as fluent in english, and in those environments you're usually the minority so why should they? It would be similar to expecting people in different areas of the US to abandon their regional dialect or accents because it inconveniences you.
Your extensive experience biased your views of an entire group of people based upon the actions of a relative few and caused you to develop and adhere to stereotypes. You do realize that by nature your field causes you more often than not to come into contact with the criminal element over the average illegal immigrant. Because of this you have developed strong opinions that are nonfactual, and have a racial undertone.
In effect you're missing out on the big picture. The same generalizations you make on the illegal immigrants apply to any impoverished groups of people whether they be white, black, or latino.
You honestly think for one second that there wasn't a criminal element that came with previous waves of immigration to the US?
There has to be some adaptation to merely exist in a foreign environment. Eliminating language barriers and working with what you're provided to thrive are essential in the long term, but not necessarily right away. That's happening here with our immigrants, but anywhere that you have a group of people with similar backgrounds living together they will revert to their native language and habits. Its happened here with other immigrant groups as well. Out of curiosity, how did you learn Spanish? I'm willing to bet that you didn't teach it to yourself in your free time, or have a friend teach you. I'm curious as to how quickly you would've picked it up had you been attempting to work several jobs while also caring for your family, and lacked the money to pay for lessons.
Assimilation by definition is when a minority group adopts the customs and attitudes of the prevailing culture, and requires giving up a large part of oneself. You did not assimilate.
You fail to mention that in many of these areas the latino's have effectively become the majority. Why wouldn't they speak their own languages? If there were a spanish town where a large group of english speaking peoples lived wouldn't you revert to your native tongue?
"These folks demand special services" So do the majority of Americans who go overseas.
Because those who are unemployed primarily come from occupations that the illegals AREN'T working. The jobs that they primarily fill require less than a highschool diploma. I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of that 15 million aren't putting in applications at McDonald's or to pick fruit.
I'm not for open door immigration, or amnesty, but I do recognize a demand for labor that exists within our country that Americans aren't meeting. The immigrants aren't coming here to mooch off of our welfare programs (which they aren't eligible for anyhow). The vast majority of them are working. 33 thousand visa's for unskilled labor doesn't meet the demand that we have for labor. There's also an inherent hypocrisy in that we are denying a group of people the opportunity that our ancestors were afforded, and claiming that this time its different.
You are wrong. When I lived and worked in Germany, I did my best to assimilate to their culture. That doesn't mean I gave up my own ideas and culture. It means I adopted theirs when I was there. I made every effort to understand it, immersed myself in it, did my best to learn their language and customs, made German friends and socialized with them, went to their opera, movies, and pubs, etc. You could call it adapting, but it was more than that. And I would expect more than that from someone who wishes to immigrate here.
But, more to the point... I'd be interested in your justification for more immigration, especially more unskilled and less (we'll use your position) "adaptive" aliens, during a period when we have record unemployment and when our governmental entities are having a more difficult time than ever before meeting their responsibilities to our own people. Put aside, for the moment, the ludicrous position that we should allow a foreign group to become a "majority" in our country. Forget about the adverse effects on our own culture and communities... how can you justify a position which can only serve to make our own position worse?
I'd like to see you go to a foreign country, even the countries where most of these aliens originate, and propose to make American the predominant culture and American English the predominant language, and propose inundating their communities with American citizens and see how that would be received. Your position just makes no sense.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
