U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:44 AM
 
88 posts, read 215,233 times
Reputation: 62

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Navy View Post
Reinstate the Draft and include the illegal's in the lottery.....There would be a traffic jam at the border from California to Indiana from them trying to get back home!!!

Hehe, you could be right! Actually, I read that a lot of undocumented started leaving when our economy got worse. On the other hand, a portion of legal immigrants actually enlist and have a path to citizenship that way.

Would kind of separate people's intentions, wouldn't it?

Recession May Be Driving Off Illegals - TIME
Military paves way for citizenship for legal immigrants

Of course, looking back over our nation's history, we've had whole regiments (and I think even one division comprised entirely of Germans) of non-English speaking immigrants serving in our military's ranks:

German-Americans in the Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More info:
http://wesclark.com/jw/foreign_soldiers.html

I have to say that, growing up in the Shenandoah valley, my first exposure to people from other cultures and backgrounds was in the military (active duty Air Force for 4 years, then WVANG for another 6).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,764,091 times
Reputation: 6835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Navy View Post
Reinstate the Draft and include the illegal's in the lottery.....There would be a traffic jam at the border from California to Indiana from them trying to get back home!!!
Or to get out of it they'll join the Navy like perhaps you did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:48 AM
 
88 posts, read 215,233 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Or to get out of it they'll join the Navy like perhaps you did.

Hey now, even though I think you and I agree on a lot of this issue, let's please not disparage this man's military service -- thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2009, 08:43 PM
 
4,714 posts, read 12,166,173 times
Reputation: 1057
The Romans did that toward the end of their empire...hired mercenaries to fight their wars, as the regular citizenry rose above the soldier calling...

but the 'hoods I see in the 'hoods are more into dope peddling than a 'real job...would be a conflict in job diversity, for sure....wouldn't expect them to enlist in our armed services...to much like obeying a law or something...

to much like adaptation...

What I seem to be seeing with all this liberal mindset...to put a single word on it ...SEGREGATION.

These illegal groups are self isolated because they are not within the law...therefore they are Self Segregating...

Am I wrong?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:01 PM
 
88 posts, read 215,233 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
The Romans did that toward the end of their empire...hired mercenaries to fight their wars, as the regular citizenry rose above the soldier calling...

but the 'hoods I see in the 'hoods are more into dope peddling than a 'real job...would be a conflict in job diversity, for sure....wouldn't expect them to enlist in our armed services...to much like obeying a law or something...

to much like adaptation...

What I seem to be seeing with all this liberal mindset...to put a single word on it ...SEGREGATION.

These illegal groups are self isolated because they are not within the law...therefore they are Self Segregating...

Am I wrong?
Yeah? You mean, like the Bush administration's policy of hiring mercenaries like Blackwater? I can see the analogy there. The rest of your post doesn't logically follow. By the way, the Germanic mercenaries in the Roman army (that I think you are referring to) were not granted Roman citizenship upon honorable discharge (unlike troops from the Roman provinces) -- they fought only when paid to fight and went home when they were done.

Last edited by Vells; 12-06-2009 at 10:10 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:12 PM
 
10,126 posts, read 12,770,434 times
Reputation: 1771
His post is perfectly logical. Those who support the illicits
are in effect supporting criminal enterprises. These people
steal identities and ruin peoples' credit. They take money
from our already overstretched and debt ridden government
by not paying taxes, then they ship their "earnings" out of
the country further damaging our economy. They commit
a disproportionate share of the violent crime, and take
valuable and expensive social service resources from
deserving citizens.

In addition, thanks to their leftist friends in high places in
some of our urban environments, they are actually protected
in their criminal affairs. The feel good crowd simply makes
excuses for them and calls them victims while they commit
crimes with impunity that Americans would be sent to prison
for commiting (the so called "sanctuary cities"). It is beyond
stupid. Try not paying your taxes sometime, or using false
information on official documents. See where that gets you.
(I'm not really suggesting you do that, of course, for the sake
of an example)

The wack jobs and their elitist, super rich allies who pay no
taxes anyway and just want the cheap labor, are actually
promoting that garbage at the expense of the rest of us
and doing their parts to ruin our middle class and culture in
the process.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:18 PM
 
88 posts, read 215,233 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
His post is perfectly logical. Those who support the illicits
are in effect supporting criminal enterprises. These people
steal identities and ruin peoples' credit. They take money
from our already overstretched and debt ridden government
by not paying taxes, then they ship their "earnings" out of
the country further damaging our economy. They commit
a disproportionate share of the violent crime, and take
valuable and expensive social service resources from
deserving citizens.

In addition, thanks to their leftist friends in high places in
some of our urban environments, they are actually protected
in their criminal affairs. The feel good crowd simply makes
excuses for them and calls them victims while they commit
crimes with impunity that Americans would be sent to prison
for commiting. It is beyond stupid. Try not paying your
taxes sometime, or using false information on official documents.
See where that gets you. (I'm not really suggesting you do
that, of course, for the sake of an example)
(What was that supposed to be, a sonnet?) Again with the stupid propaganda rooted in no factual evidence. Provide some supporting evidence some time (oh, wait, you can't!).

They are in no way a protected class -- if anything, they live in constant anxiety over deportation -- so much so, that they are afraid to pursue these benefits you accuse them of taking (and which even many legal immigrants actually can't get): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25727901/

Many of them do pay taxes (it's called a taxpayer ID): http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/bu...9illegals.html
They commit actually less crime than U.S. citizens (at least according to studies done in California).
Immigration: No Correlation With Crime - TIME

If you want to try to stereotype me as some kind of "feel good liberal" then go ahead, but find some real basis for your argument -- I'm not buying your B.S.

Show one credible source for your information. I typically back up my arguments. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

Some of the comments I read from you are just like those of uninformed people who know nothing about WV saying: "Those Hillbillies in West Virginia marry their cousins, distill moonshine, have violent feuds with each other, and are illiterate." I'll argue vehemently against that stereotype as well (as you might have seen from my comments in another thread).

Last edited by Vells; 12-06-2009 at 10:29 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:36 PM
 
10,126 posts, read 12,770,434 times
Reputation: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vells View Post
Again with the stupid propaganda rooted in no factual evidence. Provide some supporting evidence some time (oh, wait, you can't!).

They are in no way a protected class.
Many of them do pay taxes (it's called a taxpayer ID): http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/bu...9illegals.html
They commit actually less crime than U.S. citizens (at least according to studies done in California).
Immigration: No Correlation With Crime - TIME

If you want to try to stereotype me as some kind of "feel good liberal" then go ahead, but find some real basis for your argument -- I'm not buying your B.S.

Show one credible source for your information. I typically back up my arguments. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

This is just like uninformed people who know nothing about WV saying: "Those Hillbillies in West Virginia marry their cousins, distill moonshine, have violent feuds with each other, and are illiterate." I'll argue vehemently against that stereotype as well (as you might have seen from my comments in another thread).
Okay... explain this. If they "pay taxes", how do they do that when they have no valid identification with the government? Answer,... the ones who do get legitimate jobs steal others' identities. As to the protected cities point... go to San Francisco, or right down the road from where I have been living in New Haven, Connecticut and you get the picture. Some states and locales actually give them undeserved social service benefits.

It has nothing to do with stereotypes. It has to do with the 22 years experience I have in working in the criminal justice system. You want "evidence" so that you will be able to back off your illogical argument. Okay... try this:

A list of sanctuary cities provided via a respected mainstream media organization:

Bill O'Reilly: BillOReilly.com Headlines - List of American sanctuary cities

and another:

A List Of All The Sanctuary Cities That Shelter Illegal Alien Criminals! « Be A Soldier In The Army Of The Lord

yet another straight from a wacko website:

Sanctuary city, sanctuary, sanctuary city list, Ohio, jobs, OJJPAC, list, justice, soverignty, citizenship, illegal alien, immigration, amnesty, sanctuary cities, undocumented, ICE, NYC, IIRIRA, Huston, Chicago, Phoenix, L.A., Salvi, Steve Salvi

I have first hand knowledge of illegal alien criminal activities, but you want some hard evidence...

V.O.I.A.C. Victims of Illegal Alien Crime

Justice Dept. Figures on Incarcerated Illegals

If someone would break in our back door, so to speak, what makes you believe they would otherwise behave appropriately. They jumped the line in the first place, then they continue to commit crimes while they are here. They deserve absolutely no special consideration. I have no idea where your Time magazine study got their so-called data for their study, but I can tell you from experience it is fundamentally flawed and given the liberal bias of that publication likely intentionally done so. You can do anything you want with statistics, and as for violent crime a primary reason many illicits don't appear in some statistical data bases is because they flee the country after commiting the crimes and remain unapprehended.

In any case, no matter how many crimes might be commited by citizens, the victims of crimes commited by illicit aliens would argue with the contention that their presence somehow makes people safer, wherever that convoluted reasoning originated. Since they aren't supposed to be here in the first place, the crimes would not have taken place if they were where they belong... in their own countries.

Last edited by CTMountaineer; 12-06-2009 at 11:23 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 01:45 AM
 
88 posts, read 215,233 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
Okay... explain this. If they "pay taxes", how do they do that when they have no valid identification with the government?
That's an easy one, it's called a Taxpayer ID (ITIN): Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)

As for the other links:
So what, Bill O'Reilly an a religious website make a list of "sanctuary cities" not sure what that was supposed to prove -- other than the fact that some cities have decided that they have bigger issues than undocumented workers. One of your links didn't even spell "Houston" correctly, unless they actually meant some place called "Huston."

That "victims" site? First, I don't make light of victims of any crime committed by anyone. But, if you look at it, it goes back to 1971, lists about 385 names, many of them "John Doe," or "Jane Doe" with no other information -- how do you even know that website is accurate?

As far as California crime stats (which, your site erroneously listed California's undocumented immigrant population at 3%, and 17% of prison population -- undocumented immigrants compose actually 35% of the overall state population):
Press Release

Here's an actual DOJ document on the prison system population demographics:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pim08st.pdf (broken link)

In all state prison systems (where most of the property and violent crime offenders go) combined, non-U.S. citizen prisoners (of both documented and undocumented status -- they don't have the numbers breaking out the undocumented immigrant prisoners for every state) compose about 4.6% of the overall prison population.

See, actual information, not some politically slanted website's propaganda. I could link to stuff like the Huffington Post, but I'm intentionally not linking what I know to be partisan viewpoints when citing statistics.

I'm finished arguing this, though. I don't know why I even cared what the WV message board looks like here. It's just kind of interesting to see this kind of lawn tractor pontification posted online.

Good luck cruising the job sites and checking out the workers, gentlemen. I hope no one mistakes your intentions gives you their phone number!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 01:55 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 12,166,173 times
Reputation: 1057
An unconvicted criminal once said this profoundly: "It just depends on what your definition of IS, is."

And by saying that phrase, he gave license to every crackpot and anarchist from that day forward...

they come and eventually they go from this blog...always filled with self loathing and denial and refusing the counseling that will get them out of their 'stuck' position.


Our state prisons are approaching overload now...a solution would be to begin killing the offenders of the higher crimes or turning them loose.

A deterret to future crime might be a speedy trial and a speedy hanging...I mention that because it has worked very well in the past.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top