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Old 12-09-2009, 11:58 AM
 
530 posts, read 968,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCDom View Post
Zea mays: You do realize that raising minimum wage actually hurts the middle class, correct?
Doing a quick and dirty google search I can find just as many opinions disagreeing with what you say. What's your source?

 
Old 12-09-2009, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Hurricane, West Virginia
120 posts, read 331,038 times
Reputation: 53
Common sense -- That wasn't a smartas* response. Seriously, just think about it.
 
Old 12-09-2009, 02:16 PM
 
404 posts, read 971,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCDom View Post
Common sense -- That wasn't a smartas* response. Seriously, just think about it.

ahh good ole "common sense". I wish scientists would get rid of research and statistical analysis and just use a good ole dose of gut feelings. It may not be right, but damn does it make me feel warm and fuzzy. Reminds me how every fox news source is "Some people" aka "Some people are saying that Obama is a secret muslim whose trying to murder your children.. I'm not saying he is, but there are some me people are saying...."
 
Old 12-09-2009, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Hurricane, West Virginia
120 posts, read 331,038 times
Reputation: 53
I assume that you (and others) who post on this board have access to Google (as a matter of fact, ButtercupMcToots said that s/he just did a Google search). That being the case, it’s quite simple to do a Google search for, “Pros and Cons for Minimum Wage Arguments” and read the arguments for both sides (rather than me spoon feed you data or dictate to you my opinion). When I directed Buttercup to “common sense,” and very clearly stated that I was not attempting to be flippant, I was asking him/her thoughtfully think about it and come to a conclusion.

Let me provide you with a few hypothetical situations: You own a very small business with two employees, allowing you time away from the shop. The government mandates that you must increase wages by $2.50 per hour (over inflation) a piece. What options do you have? How likely are you to continue to employ both individuals in the same capacity that you did before the legislation was enacted? What if you are an investor in a very big business that employs thousands of “unskilled” laborers who all earn minimum wages? How are you going to feel when your stock returns nosedive? Your reaction is going to be, “reduce labor costs” (through layoffs, terminations, automation or whatever).

Let’s say that you are a manager of a small business and get paid $7.00 an hour to manage four employees who make $5.50 an hour. The government mandates that the owner increases wages of the employees that you manage to $6.25 an hour. You’re certainly not getting a raise and you’re still doing the same amount of work. Your $7.00 is no longer worth as much money. Don’t forget, you have a family at home to feed, so it’s not as if you’re going to be altruistic and say, “Well good for those that got a raise even though I didn’t.” And let’s not pretend that you can actually raise a family on $7.00 per hour. Sure, an individual making $100,000 a year (those “rich Republicans” that many constantly complain about) doesn’t mind a raise in minimum wage because that $1.25 isn’t going to have much effect on the $100,000 he brings home each year. It’s those in the LOWER-MIDDLE CLASS making $10,000-$50,000 a year that it hurts.

See, common sense! Again, there are arguments in favor and against mandated wage increases. You can find supporting “facts, numbers, and scientific data” in support of every argument, it’s called “spin.” I am asking that you use your head and think for yourself in specific situations.
 
Old 12-09-2009, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,741,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtercupMcToots View Post
West Virginia has decided their biggest problems are, losing their guns, abortion, and gays. Oh and getting health care which would result in a loss of freedom.
and they've apparently just recently discovered undocumented workers, based on other posts here.
 
Old 12-09-2009, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Hurricane, West Virginia
120 posts, read 331,038 times
Reputation: 53
Default Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesco White View Post
ahh good ole "common sense". I wish scientists would get rid of research and statistical analysis and just use a good ole dose of gut feelings. It may not be right, but damn does it make me feel warm and fuzzy. Reminds me how every fox news source is "Some people" aka "Some people are saying that Obama is a secret muslim whose trying to murder your children.. I'm not saying he is, but there are some me people are saying...."
Your sarcasm & attempt at wit has no place in an intellectual debate. That being said, you seem to promote and be in favor of fact-checking and citing sources. Please provide me with examples of "every fox news [sic] source is Some [sic] people."
 
Old 12-09-2009, 03:26 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,584 posts, read 16,244,414 times
Reputation: 13002
There are multiple sides to the issue. For example, and conversely to what was stated earlier, a rise in labor costs, if attributed under COGs, could and usually does result in a higher price point to end purchasers. It doesn't necessarily mean that owners will accept less or are forced to take less to compensate for increased wage pressure.

Depending on the economic conditions, the base line 'minimum wage' increase would have inconsequential impact. Case in point is a period where inflationary pressures are low (as is the case now) so modest increases in goods sold to cover COG's (or SG&A expense, depending on the classification of the wage earner) is nil.

There are indeed opposing arguments, and not all business models can raise price points to compensate for the increase in wage pressures. But rising minimum wage standards don't always drive down or negatively impact the middle class. And then of course is the argument that raising wage 'standards' benefits all by increasing the purchasing power of the MW class, blah, blah.. And then the argument that raising wages (expenses) decreases shareholder revenue by reduction in earnings so investors are the ones that get hurt, blah, blah...

The truth in all of it is it depends. It depends on a host of other circumstances that would need to be considered in order to measure the true impact.

(And then of course if the business owner can't get by paying minimum wage, I guess there's always the illegal's they can turn to, lol).

I believe that the MW standard is just that- it's a base line, bottom cellar standard. It's what- $15,600 p/yr for a FT employee? Compare that to the poverty standards and see what fractional percentage of that it is.
 
Old 12-09-2009, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Hurricane, West Virginia
120 posts, read 331,038 times
Reputation: 53
Threerun: I appreciate your thoughtful and informative post. In a much different manner, you reiterated my point earlier, as it truly does depend; hence, my assertion of "common sense." Again, perhaps I should have been more eloquent than simply stating, "common sense." and, I clearly presented my side of the argument. Nonetheless, to my credit, I pointed out that there are arguments (backed by scientific data) on both sides and encouraged all interested parties to, "think for themselves."

You point concerning "illegals" was well taken and humorous...Cheers!

Last edited by ABCDom; 12-09-2009 at 04:00 PM..
 
Old 12-09-2009, 05:32 PM
 
530 posts, read 968,990 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCDom View Post
Threerun: I appreciate your thoughtful and informative post. In a much different manner, you reiterated my point earlier, as it truly does depend; hence, my assertion of "common sense." Again, perhaps I should have been more eloquent than simply stating, "common sense." and, I clearly presented my side of the argument. Nonetheless, to my credit, I pointed out that there are arguments (backed by scientific data) on both sides and encouraged all interested parties to, "think for themselves."

You point concerning "illegals" was well taken and humorous...Cheers!
You so didn't say it depends. You said it was bad for the middle class.
 
Old 12-09-2009, 05:40 PM
 
530 posts, read 968,990 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
and they've apparently just recently discovered undocumented workers, based on other posts here.
We do got troubles.
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