U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2010, 11:42 AM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,577 posts, read 16,240,984 times
Reputation: 13000

Advertisements

When considering value, make sure the variables are listed- http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

Interesting to note a gallon of gas today at $2.80 is relatively cheaper than in the early eighties.

Enjoy the book.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2010, 11:50 AM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,577 posts, read 16,240,984 times
Reputation: 13000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
The question is what caused the bankruptcies and what type are they? Ch 7, 11 or 13...
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

Quote:
Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them.

They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.

"That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study -- 78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services," says Woolhandler. "Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance."
That was before the economy really went bust. I'd imagine this statistic decreased a bit as unemployment ramped up.

But this is exactly what impacted me in community banking. I had small business owners that filed for ch.7 due to immense medical bills. Most of them reaffirmed their debts with us though.

Early in my career in the eighties the majority of bankruptcy filings were 'lifestyle related'- borrowers using credit cards to finance their facade. It's pretty stark to see healthcare issues overtake that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: nunya
566 posts, read 1,431,619 times
Reputation: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
No I guess not. A lifelong career in banking, finance and economics certainly doesn't lend itself very well to understanding bankruptcy laws, the federal reserve system nor the impact of dollar valuations relative to CPI/GDP.

Maybe I should begin gleaning information and forming conclusions from populist positions, that makes more sense I guess.

Carry on.
Were you just being obstinate then?

Sometimes, people can't see the forest for the trees, or prefer not to. This is reminding me of a recent public letter by a banker, stating how WV banks are working for WV, the author was taken to task a bit on that one.

As an aside, it was a banker that loaned the book to me.

I've seen the juggled figures on how gas is such a great deal these days, it fits right in with the stated unemployment figures and inflation rates. Smoke and mirrors.

Last edited by Two-Rivers; 01-12-2010 at 12:35 PM.. Reason: sentence structure
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,577 posts, read 16,240,984 times
Reputation: 13000
If you choose to hold those facts as 'juggled', regardless of what tried methodology is used then that's your choice. It's not mine.

I guess obstinacy abounds. I don't dispute the issues surrounding the massive debt that this country (and countrymen) have allowed themselves into. However I don't believe that the abolishment of the 'Fed' (or FRB) is a very constructive measure, nor a primary player in this issue. Quite frankly I believe the FRB has become to politicized and should become completely sacrosanct of Congress, because Congress are the screwballs in the game.

Look- I don't get into politics or internet conspiracy BS, the Illuminati or any of that jazz, so I'll simply agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2010, 03:45 PM
 
Location: nunya
566 posts, read 1,431,619 times
Reputation: 240
It's not internet conspiracy BS or any of that jazz.

I hate to say this, since we have had good exchanges in the past, but it appears you are part of the problem. If you can't see the correlation of a devalued dollar and bankruptcies, we are wasting bandwidth. That's not to say that Fed policy alone is responsible, but it's at least one bale of straw on the camel's back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2010, 05:50 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,577 posts, read 16,240,984 times
Reputation: 13000
How can it be a sole correlation when bankruptcies have also spiked during periods of high dollar valuations? Look at bankruptcy filing statistics during those periods as well.

You can't blame current bankruptcies intrinsically on a devalued dollar. One can make an argument that spiraling medical costs, which grew exponentially as a proportion of other costs certainly can contribute to increases in bankruptcy filings.

And I'm part of what problem- a devalued dollar? C'mon.

Furthermore the impact of dollar devaluation has yet to be truly seen. If inflation comes home to roost, then we WILL see a lot more bankruptcies and a lot more heartache. And if that's the case then the FRB certainly will have some culpability, along with the politicos that refuse to manage our nations checkbook, et all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2010, 06:26 PM
 
Location: nunya
566 posts, read 1,431,619 times
Reputation: 240
You're twisting my words and/or not comprehending what I'm posting. I'm not bothering to shoot your last reply full of holes. I'm done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2010, 06:28 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,577 posts, read 16,240,984 times
Reputation: 13000
No- I don't comprehend, especially the bit about 'me' being part of the 'problem'.

So we'll just let 'er go and leave it at that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2010, 06:36 PM
 
Location: nunya
566 posts, read 1,431,619 times
Reputation: 240
It's simple, you don't see the Fed and gov't policies as part of the problem, if you can't see the problem, you can't be part of the solution.

And if that tidbit was your biggest hurdle, you truly aren't comprehending. (besides twisting my words)

We can agree to disagree, then forget about it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2010, 07:26 PM
Status: "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
12,577 posts, read 16,240,984 times
Reputation: 13000
Not trying to twist your words at all. Do I think the Gov't and the FRB was a bit player in the increase in bankruptcy filings?

Sure- a wee bit. Less than other factors for sure.

Actually there is an interesting study that someone at the NY FRB did that tries to look at the correlation between the 2005 Bankruptcy law changes, which introduced a means test, and the sub-prime meltdown.

The premise goes that since the ease of filing bankruptcy was altered, those that would have previously filed full discharge on unsecured creditors were now forced to reorganize, thus not being able to pay their mortgages.

An interesting perspective, but I doubt that had much of an impact in the matter. Actually I don't give it much credit at all. Maybe it did a wee bit, but certainly less than other factors.

However if it did have an impact, then I was certainly part of the 'problem' since I vehemently supported changes in the bankruptcy laws. Or, depending on your point of view- I was part of the solution, lol.

It will be interesting to see the stats on the most recent bankruptcy filings. I suspect dramatic increases in the Ch7 'full discharge' variety due to unemployment growth- Can't pass a means test without income or excess unprotected assets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top