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Homeowners may cover to clean up contamination, but I'm just saying that in NJ at least,, my uncle has spent tens of thousands fighting the buyer of his home (many years ago and it's still going on) for not disclosing that it leaked and was later cleaned up. Not saying that the buyers will win, but he's out legal fees regardless. Never buy a home that you know for sure has an environmental issue. It's just not worth the liability.
The tank does not have to be pulled out. They can treat it by emptying the tank, filling it with a special foam, and call it "abandoned in place." The company gives you the paperwork to show that it's been done according to the environmental regs. It cost me $2500. Then I just set up a new tank in the basement.
I would absolutely make the seller deal with this before buying it. Sounds like you love the house, but it's just bricks, and you will find another house if it's not this one. We once bought a house and had the old tank removed (not being used) by the sellers, with no contamination. At the time I did a little research and read an article about a family that spent $500k on remediation, as the contamination had gone under the home and had spread on to a neighbor's property. I have never forgotten that article! Even if it's covered under homeowners - in that case half their house was torn up, not to mention ill will between neighbors. If there is no contamination, it should be $1500 - $2500 for the sellers to deal with it. If there is contamination, you do not want this house.
folks thanks for the inputs. we did a test before closing. it failed the tightness test, as i had anticipated. the only good thing is an adhoc 6 feet bore near the tank, the soil came out dry and didnt smell. keeping our fingers crossed. the soil in the neighbourhood is clay and the general neighbourhood is rocky. i was slightly worried because USGS records said ground water in the neighbourhood was 61 inches. From what we could tell atleast 10 inches below USGS estimates there is no water.
as an aside, the tank had very little water, and we had a hiss. when they say hiss and bubble with the HORNER EZY 3 Locator Plus, they really mean it. You can actually hear the hiss. the mic is very sensitive and you can even hear pulling out the grass.
wrt to very little water in the tank, the tech was not sure, it could have been a low condensation environment of the tank or that the tank has a hole in the bottom that leaked all the water.
i asked the tech a few questions. bottomline is this, with the tightness test you cant figure out the location of the hole or the size of it. but,because of its sensitivity it can detect existence of even a tiny a hole somewhere in the tank.
will keep the thread posted as and when i know more.
for now, tightness test failed, we have a DEC spill number, the ball is now entirely in the seller's court. We wait.
Last edited by shaardula; 04-30-2013 at 01:06 PM..
Reason: spell
IANAL. We had a leaky tank. Under NYS law the only thing that a previous owner cannot be relieved of is environmental contamination that they should have known about. We had the previous owners pay 29k for remediation after we had a carbon date of the soil show it had been leaking for 19 years.
And the tank passed proguard's approved tank inspection. If you read the tank test, the payer of the tank test actually indemnifies the tank tester. The people that own the home now have the responsibility to remediate your tank by law.
As long as the tank is less than 20 years old and is in use, you have nothing to worry about and there's no reason to remove it. Underground tanks have been safe since the 1980s and are still very standard in most of Westchester, including in new construction. The rules for what materials were used in tanks changed in the 80s and the risk of leaks became minimal. Old unused tanks pose a huge risk, but newer in-use ones don't at all. Check out the state DEP site, which has info on this.
It states: "This Part applies to all aboveground and underground facilities with a combined capacity of over eleven hundred (1,100) gallons". It goes on to state the requirements for oil tanks for these facilities.
I also talked to someone at Envirostar, and he states home oil tanks are not regulated in Westchester
It states: "This Part applies to all aboveground and underground facilities with a combined capacity of over eleven hundred (1,100) gallons". It goes on to state the requirements for oil tanks for these facilities.
I also talked to someone at Envirostar, and he states home oil tanks are not regulated in Westchester
When we installed our in-ground tank in 2001 we dealt with Westchester regulations. Since we're in the watershed we also had to deal with another set of DEP regulations and a DEP rep was on site to oversee removal of the old tank and the installation of the new one. But there were definitely Westchester county regs about the tank as well. I do not recall dealing with state regs, just county.
My architect wife says there are definitely Westchester county regs on the installation of underground tanks (they have to be steel and double walled, among other things). How old the tank is will determine whether or not the installers had to follow those regs. She says lots of new residential construction has underground tanks and it is quite common in upper Westchester.
When we installed our in-ground tank in 2001 we dealt with Westchester regulations. Since we're in the watershed we also had to deal with another set of DEP regulations and a DEP rep was on site to oversee removal of the old tank and the installation of the new one. But there were definitely Westchester county regs about the tank as well. I do not recall dealing with state regs, just county.
My architect wife says there are definitely Westchester county regs on the installation of underground tanks (they have to be steel and double walled, among other things). How old the tank is will determine whether or not the installers had to follow those regs. She says lots of new residential construction has underground tanks and it is quite common in upper Westchester.
Thanks Dma, that makes me feel better. I got your direct msg last night, but wasn't able to respond b/c I'm limited to one a day. I did read somewhere that Westchester is one of the 5 counties that has more regs regarding USTs.
Can you let me know what kind of tank you had installed? If double-walled, I'm assuming you can easily check to see if there are leaks by yourself and not have to hire a professonal? Thanks!
I did some more digging and found this on the westchestergov.com website: health.westchestergov.com/petroleum-bulk-storage
The definition of a Petroleum Bulk Storage facility is "a single property or contiguous or adjacent properties used for a common purpose which are owned or operated by the same person on or in which are located:
One or more stationary tanks which are used singularly or in combination for the storage or containment of more than one thousand one hundred gallons of petroleum; or
All stationary tanks used for storage of used oil; or Any tank whose capacity is greater than one hundred ten gallons that is used for the storage or containment of petroleum, the volume of which is ten percent or more beneath the surface of the ground."
That last point pretty much classifies all USTs in Westchester as a "facility" and subject to Westchester regs.
I called the Westchester County Department of Health number that's listed on the site, and they said you can get the UST registration info for any house by going to www3.westchestergov.com/foil-request or emailing foil-doh@westchestergov.com and saying you want info on the house's UST (they also have info on a house's septic system)
I look at some of the PDFs on the site and found this: health.westchestergov.com/images/stories/pdfs/articlexxv_pbs_march2010.pdf
13. The term "Facility" means a single property or contiguous or adjacent properties used for a common purpose which are owned or operated by the same person on or in which are located:
13.1. one or more stationary tanks which are used singularly or in combination for the storage or containment of more than one thousand one hundred gallons of petroleum; or
13.2. all stationary tanks used for storage of used oil; or
13.3. any tank whose capacity is greater than one hundred ten gallons that is used for the storage or containment of petroleum, the volume of which is ten percent or more beneath the surface of the ground. This term shall not include:
13.3.1. Facilities licensed under article twelve of the navigation law;
13.3.2. Facilities regulated under the federal natural gas act;
13.3.3. a heating oil tank used for on premises consumption at the same site which is not interconnected to any other heating oil tank and is used to store or contain less than one thousand one hundred gallons of petroleum unless such tank is located on a site that otherwise meets the definition of Facility given in this subdivision;
This is crazy. At this point, I'm just going to take dma's word and wait for the tightness test results
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home oil tanks regulated in Westchester?
